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LLLLern · 07-13-2008, 06:20 PM

High Mg per ML Roids, What you need to know –

1. Most hormones have a pretty low solubility in oil.
2. The primary ways to increase solubility are to
A) add solvent (BA or EA).
B) Add an ester to the hormone. The longer the ester
the more hormone will fit in the oil at a certain mg
per ml ratio. Conversely, the weight of the ester is
also factored in the total mg per ml ratio, so while
you can fit more hormone in, you are getting less
actual hormone than the mg amount implies. Here are
some examples:

Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63
nand phenyl 67
nand deca 64

This means that if your test cyp says 200 mgs per ml
you get an actual 140 mgs of test. The rest of the
weight is the weight of the ester. If that sounds like
a bad deal you need to understand that test no ester
is VERY insoluble in oil without going to very high mg
per ml solvent concentrations.

This brings up the next point; PAIN!

Why do some shots hurt? There are two primary reasons.
One, the solvent ratio is too high. Anything over
about 10% starts to hurt. BA and EA are VERY
inflammatory to the tissues. That’s why you want ONLY
enough to help your oil hold more gear but not so much
that it causes inflammation.

The second reason is that the gear crystallizes in the
depot. This is precisely why water-based suspensions
feel like hammer blows. The water is absorbed FAST,
leaving the gear to crystallize in the tissues = PAIN.
Even gear in oil can do this, here is how it works. If
you use a low ester weight attached to your gear and
make the mg per ml ratio SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the
oil will hold on it's own, what happens is the body
absorbs the solvent faster than the oil/gear and the
gear falls out of the solution and crystallizes in the
depot and WHAM, it hurts like hell. An optimum
solution has just enough solvent to get more gear into
solution than you could otherwise, but not so much
that what I just stated happens. When the ratios are
correct the gear holds in the solution UNTIL the whole
depot is absorbed and very little or no pain is felt.
Just to end this misconception once and for all IT IS
NOT THE VOLUME OF THE OIL THAT CAUSES THE PAIN, IT IS
ONE OF THE CONDITIONS STATED ABOVE. You can shoot 5
cc's of sterile oil and never know you took a shot. It
IS NOT HOW MUCH OIL YOU SHOOT! So why does everyone
search for super high mg per ml ratio gear like it's
the damn holy grail???

What is too high? Well the length of the ester is
really what determines that but most of us here know
the gear that hurts and know we know why. All tests
over 250 mgs per ml hurt, and actually most of the 250
mg tests hurt too. SOOOO many people want there tren
at 150-200 mgs per ml. Tren acetate should be at about
what?? 75 mgs per ml. That is why all the kits are
designed this way. Do you really think it's cheaper
for the kit producers to add MORE oil to their kits
instead of less? One other quick note. Oil is used
because it SLOWS absorption. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT
YOU WANT IN A STEROID SHOT! Less oil does not promote
the steady state hormone levels achieved with more oil.

Originally posted by Doom

ItalianGuns · 08-04-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLLLern

High Mg per ML Roids, What you need to know –

1. Most hormones have a pretty low solubility in oil.
2. The primary ways to increase solubility are to
A) add solvent (BA or EA).
B) Add an ester to the hormone. The longer the ester
the more hormone will fit in the oil at a certain mg
per ml ratio. Conversely, the weight of the ester is
also factored in the total mg per ml ratio, so while
you can fit more hormone in, you are getting less
actual hormone than the mg amount implies. Here are
some examples:

Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63
nand phenyl 67
nand deca 64

This means that if your test cyp says 200 mgs per ml
you get an actual 140 mgs of test. The rest of the
weight is the weight of the ester. If that sounds like
a bad deal you need to understand that test no ester
is VERY insoluble in oil without going to very high mg
per ml solvent concentrations.

This brings up the next point; PAIN!

Why do some shots hurt? There are two primary reasons.
One, the solvent ratio is too high. Anything over
about 10% starts to hurt. BA and EA are VERY
inflammatory to the tissues. That’s why you want ONLY
enough to help your oil hold more gear but not so much
that it causes inflammation.

The second reason is that the gear crystallizes in the
depot. This is precisely why water-based suspensions
feel like hammer blows. The water is absorbed FAST,
leaving the gear to crystallize in the tissues = PAIN.
Even gear in oil can do this, here is how it works. If
you use a low ester weight attached to your gear and
make the mg per ml ratio SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the
oil will hold on it's own, what happens is the body
absorbs the solvent faster than the oil/gear and the
gear falls out of the solution and crystallizes in the
depot and WHAM, it hurts like hell. An optimum
solution has just enough solvent to get more gear into
solution than you could otherwise, but not so much
that what I just stated happens. When the ratios are
correct the gear holds in the solution UNTIL the whole
depot is absorbed and very little or no pain is felt.
Just to end this misconception once and for all IT IS
NOT THE VOLUME OF THE OIL THAT CAUSES THE PAIN, IT IS
ONE OF THE CONDITIONS STATED ABOVE. You can shoot 5
cc's of sterile oil and never know you took a shot. It
IS NOT HOW MUCH OIL YOU SHOOT! So why does everyone
search for super high mg per ml ratio gear like it's
the damn holy grail???

What is too high? Well the length of the ester is
really what determines that but most of us here know
the gear that hurts and know we know why. All tests
over 250 mgs per ml hurt, and actually most of the 250
mg tests hurt too. SOOOO many people want there tren
at 150-200 mgs per ml. Tren acetate should be at about
what?? 75 mgs per ml. That is why all the kits are
designed this way. Do you really think it's cheaper
for the kit producers to add MORE oil to their kits
instead of less? One other quick note. Oil is used
because it SLOWS absorption. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT
YOU WANT IN A STEROID SHOT! Less oil does not promote
the steady state hormone levels achieved with more oil.

Originally posted by Doom

Good find. Been seeing way to much of the tren ace at 150, and people complaining about it. Happy it was stated that it should be 75. Maybe you can answer my question:

My rat finds that injecting test base in aqueous solution does not hurt going in, but the post inj soreness is "holy f***" he can't walk, can't sleep, etc. The BA BB total percentage is probably around 11-13%. It's at around 100mg + or - 6mg. What is causing this horrible pain after injection? To be precise, about 10-14 hours after shot, and the pain last about 3 days.

Thanks