Thoughts on this protocol for staying ON long periods...

[DR_C]

Originally Posted by Travis

Awesome post DR C. Overall you are saying people SHOULD do pct correct? I know guys who have been on years and years and never come off. Is this safer then going off and on all the time constantly fluctuating hormone levels?

Seems as though the on/off protocol otherwise known as cycling could be just as damaging to the body, health, and hpta over time.

Ok, this answer is going to open up a whole differnt exchange so bear with me.

Yes, PCT (done with the proper degree of dilligence) is part of my overall personal vision for enhancement.

My personal vision statement is "to build as muscular and proportioned a physique as possible while minimizing the negitive impact to my overall heath" so my mission statement, objectives, and guidelines consists of a couple of propositions including....

1. Only use injectables!
2. Cycle duration should be 16-20 weeks in length to take full advantage of long esters of many injectables.
3. Only do ONE cycle a year - that is not one bulk and one cut BUT only ONE cycle period!
4. Proper PCT based on scientific support.

Now, those are my guidelines that will help me achive my vision. If your vision is not same as mine your guidelines will differ.

It is always funny to me when I get questions about these guidelines from folks who want to debate the value of my ways. The first thing I ask them is "What is your vision, mission, set of objectives, and guidelines?" 99% of the time they don't have any. They just willy-nilly take stuff when they can get it and hope for the best result.

My question is, how do they know if you are making progress toward their vision when they don't have one?

Some guys rely on strength. I don't give a rip about strength. My chest workout for example yesterday started off with Incline Bench for a set of 10 X 275, 15 X 225, 12 X 225, 10 X 225, 10 X 225. As you can see, I never do less than 10 reps so I'm not the guy in the gym tossing around the big 405 single rep bench set. I don't care about that b/c it won't get me any closer to my vision.

I always hear stuff like "My goal is to bench 450." Ok, if that is your goal, then that is totally different from my vision. I would not expect what I do to work for you.

I labored through writing this out to get to this point, what I do is consistant with achieving my vision. If someone else has a different vision, they should employ a different approach.

Now, I think constant years of use would not be a good approach to achieving my vision. Of course, yo-yoing on and off for a 8 week cycle and taking 2 months off before getting back on for 8 weeks won't get the job done for me either.

Bottom line, use of AAS must be correlated to the vision you have for yourself. To quote the old TV show Different Strokes - "What might be right for some may not be right for others."


That's why I never say something is blanket statement right or wrong until I find out what hte person hopes to achieve.

Regards,

[Travis]

I think you just described me in the lack of vision, lol. Its not that I dont have a vison. I can post pics of physiques I'd be happy with, but who knows what the quickest route to that physique is? Its always a guessing game. I do believe longer cycles give people the ability to truly change their "setpoint" so to speak.

Out of curiosity what is your personal vision?

[Gixxer82]

YouTube - Gregg Valentino in a diner EXPELLING THE MYTHS

[DR_C]

Originally Posted by Travis

I think you just described me in the lack of vision, lol. Its not that I dont have a vison. I can post pics of physiques I'd be happy with, but who knows what the quickest route to that physique is? Its always a guessing game. I do believe longer cycles give people the ability to truly change their "setpoint" so to speak.

Out of curiosity what is your personal vision?

First, in no way was I taking a shot at you. So please don't take my comments that way.

My personal vision involves all four elements of life - the physical, emotional, spiritual, and economic facets of life. So as to not wax philosophical, I'll keep this response limited to the physical and specifically the portions that relate to bodybuilding.

Make no mistake, I don't life weights, I don't power lift, nor do I care about strength. I am a bodybuilder. I compete. I have competed and won at the state level and placed in the top 3 in my weight class in a couple of national level contests. As a bodybuilder, I seek to develop a physique that will allow me to win at the national level in my weight class. So that is the part of my personal vision related to bodybuilding.

Now, that is only a very small slice of the bigger picture of the general physical facet of my life. There are other elements of general health and well-being that are not exclusive to the area of bodybuilding.

Hope that's not too far into the deep end of my psyche.

Regards,

[pudzian2]

cruise on something like EQ or primo. they really dont act on the HPTA the way things like TEST etc do....

[pudzian2]

food for thought: I took some time away from these message boards and away from training (for a week training-wise) and have been working with Dave Palumbo on a daily basis (he is currently my bbing coach).. and honestly... there is a lot of educated talk and good info on these boards but theres also a lot of overcomplicated overly analytical indecisiveness. I have found it helpful to keep one thing in mind (that mr valentino stresses and is DAMN RIGHT ABOUT). we are all different. its one thing to get opinions and get an education on these boards but get in the gym and get in the kitchen and start the trial and error procoess. once you find somethign that works.. be consistent with it.

as for AAS and suppression. The fertility thing is a bit overblown. a cycle i have planned is just shy of 6 months. PCT is overly complicated on these boards too: Here is what WILL WORK ( can be custom tailored but really no need to complicate): 2000iu HCG split into 5 shots, then 3-4 weeks CLOMID therapy at 100mg ED... HCG mimics LH and gets the testes working, then the clomid boosts natty LH.. simple. Throw in .5mg Adex ED throughout the whole thing to prevent estrogen from further suppressing the HPTA and there should be at least SOME recovery..

after such a thing (at least with my goals in mind) I would cruise on 300-500mg primo..... (good for joints, dry, and doesnt really act negatively on the HPTA).....

[Gixxer82]

Originally Posted by pudzian2

food for thought: I took some time away from these message boards and away from training (for a week training-wise) and have been working with Dave Palumbo on a daily basis (he is currently my bbing coach).. and honestly... there is a lot of educated talk and good info on these boards but theres also a lot of overcomplicated overly analytical indecisiveness. I have found it helpful to keep one thing in mind (that mr valentino stresses and is DAMN RIGHT ABOUT). we are all different. its one thing to get opinions and get an education on these boards but get in the gym and get in the kitchen and start the trial and error procoess. once you find somethign that works.. be consistent with it.

as for AAS and suppression. The fertility thing is a bit overblown. a cycle i have planned is just shy of 6 months. PCT is overly complicated on these boards too: Here is what WILL WORK ( can be custom tailored but really no need to complicate): 2000iu HCG split into 5 shots, then 3-4 weeks CLOMID therapy at 100mg ED... HCG mimics LH and gets the testes working, then the clomid boosts natty LH.. simple. Throw in .5mg Adex ED throughout the whole thing to prevent estrogen from further suppressing the HPTA and there should be at least SOME recovery..

after such a thing (at least with my goals in mind) I would cruise on 300-500mg primo..... (good for joints, dry, and doesnt really act negatively on the HPTA).....

Pardon me, but you are the KING of overcomplicated over analytical indecisiveness, are you not? lol

[DR_C]

[quote=pudzian2;52275]PCT is overly complicated on these boards too: Here is what WILL WORK ( can be custom tailored but really no need to complicate): 2000iu HCG split into 5 shots, then 3-4 weeks CLOMID therapy at 100mg ED... HCG mimics LH and gets the testes working, then the clomid boosts natty LH.. simple. Throw in .5mg Adex ED throughout the whole thing to prevent estrogen from further suppressing the HPTA and there should be at least SOME recovery..
QUOTE]

Wow! This sounds kind of familar. Is it ringing a bell for anyone else?

[pudzian2]

[quote=DR_C;52292]

Originally Posted by pudzian2

PCT is overly complicated on these boards too: Here is what WILL WORK ( can be custom tailored but really no need to complicate): 2000iu HCG split into 5 shots, then 3-4 weeks CLOMID therapy at 100mg ED... HCG mimics LH and gets the testes working, then the clomid boosts natty LH.. simple. Throw in .5mg Adex ED throughout the whole thing to prevent estrogen from further suppressing the HPTA and there should be at least SOME recovery..
QUOTE]

Wow! This sounds kind of familar. Is it ringing a bell for anyone else?

yes i read a few of your posts and we used almost identical words...

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by Gixxer82

Pardon me, but you are the KING of overcomplicated over analytical indecisiveness, are you not? lol

hey mr. sarcasm the correct term should be WAS KING OF OVERCOMPLICATING THINGS>. hahah as my post proves.. I had a revelation!