Thoughts on this protocol for staying ON long periods...

[Right Hook]

Havent given this much scientific though just yet but I thought it was interesting...particularly the part on the clomid and low dose test for a sort of "recovery" period.

Btw, first person who knows who wrote this gets repzzzz from me.

Without sounding cocky I am a very advanced bodybuilder down here in San Diego--cruising at 285lbs or so and going up over 300 this year (again) I came from a very very hard gaining and skinny genetic structure (140lbs about 10 years ago)so gains have never come easy and I didnt start super supplements until I was 240 or so clean (took me 6 years). (I use food as my chief anabolic) What I am amazed at is the number of 180 to 220lb bodybuilders on the net who spend ungodly amounts of money and use so many different exotic compounds thinking that it is the endall super stack of all stacks. And they take huge, huge risks in trying to acquire these drugs. I have had an abundance of pro and top amateur friends to gain the knowledge that pretty much -these top people in the sport are blasting high amounts of test as the base drug in the offseason to put on pro size with mostly one (sometimes two) other compounds (usually fina, or equipoise or some other non exotic drug). (and gh if it can be afforded). I firmly believe you will gain 2 times the amount of muscle off of 2 grams of test either alone or with another compound than having some kind of exotic stack involving 3 to 6 exotic hard to get expensive compounds. The receptor site theories have proven to be bunk. The cheapest and best stack I can think of anyone doing to put on major size is a gram or two of test with arimidex to keep water off with fina 75 to 150mg every other day for 4 weeks --then 2 to 3 weeks of cruising (test at 300-400mg and clomid at 5 (day one), 4(day two), 3(day three),then 2 every day for 2 weeks)--and then back on everything full again (maybe equipoise used instead of fina this time)for 4 weeks (then 2 to 3 weeks cruising again etc etc)---if you cant gain gobs of muscle on that nothing exotic (masteron, etc etc etc) surely isnt going to do it for you. Testosterone is always the base for any gaining cycle of any pro freind Ive had or top people with whom I talked with off record. I have never even been over 1000mg of test myself (yet) but I see guys spending and using 10 times the amount I do weighing 70lbs less. I think there is a major problem when the easiest, cheapest and most potent things are right in front of people and they are off searching for substance B-737 undecylate in bulgaria

[machinehead]

Doggcrapp

No reps needed

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by machinehead

Doggcrapp

No reps needed

Too bad your getting them anyways!

Any thoughts on that protocol?

[machinehead]

Just like his training system, this protocol has probably been tested on a number of people and evolved into that post. Dante wouldn't make a statement like that otherwise. That gives it a lot of merit. Other than that, I don't really have an opinion to share.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by machinehead

Just like his training system, this protocol has probably been tested on a number of people and evolved into that post. Dante wouldn't make a statement like that otherwise. That gives it a lot of merit. Other than that, I don't really have an opinion to share.

Yep I would agree that he must have been seeing real world results. That post was made back in 2002, I wonder if he has changed this at all. I dont think he posts publicly much on these super supplement topics unfortunately.

[DR_C]

I wouldn't endose the 2-3 weeks then Clomid for two weeks idea at all but he is correct about one thing, test should be the base of any bulking cycle. At a gram a week, I've never seen anyone who didn't grow by leaps and bounds.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by DR_C

I wouldn't endose the 2-3 weeks then Clomid for two weeks idea at all but he is correct about one thing, test should be the base of any bulking cycle. At a gram a week, I've never seen anyone who didn't grow by leaps and bounds.

Do you think there is anyway one can actually stimulate HPTA even while on at lower doses...or even higher doses for that matter.

I was actually looking for your feedback on this, thanx for stoppin in!

[TerribleTowel]

Bumping because I'm interested.

[DR_C]

Originally Posted by Travis

Do you think there is anyway one can actually stimulate HPTA even while on at lower doses...or even higher doses for that matter.

I was actually looking for your feedback on this, thanx for stoppin in!

The answer is yes but not using this protocol. However, the real question is why would one do this if they plan to stay on-cycle for an extend period beyond the administration of the stimulation of the HPTA. In doing so, they would simply suppress themselves again.

The general logic for such a protocol has always been "to maintain testicular mass and proper function of the HPTA" but that just does not hold water when the actual outcome is examined.

First, the idea of testicular mass itself is a complete joke. I have seen many many guys who have run some application of Clomid, HCG or whatnot while on cycle to maintain testicular mass. Testicular mass is NOT indicitive of proper HPTA function. In short, you can have "cannonballs" and still be suppressed. It is not about testicular mass.

Second, the protocol the author is describing is...

"...a gram or two of test with arimidex to keep water off with fina 75 to 150mg every other day for 4 weeks --then 2 to 3 weeks of cruising (test at 300-400mg and clomid at 5 (day one), 4(day two), 3(day three),then 2 every day for 2 weeks)--and then back on everything full again (maybe equipoise used instead of fina this time)for 4 weeks (then 2 to 3 weeks cruising again etc etc)

A "gram or two of test" and 75-100 mg of Fina EOD for four weeks will interrupt the HPTA to a point that Clomid will not provide a means of restoration in 2-3 weeks of administration. Period.

Now, one could use HCG as well as Clomid and an AI but this again would only result in suppression if the individual in question continues to use AAS after administration of the HCG, Clomid and AI.

Again, as I stated before in other threads, and to summarize here, there is little value in running PCT-type compounds during long cycles of AAS. The idea of testicular size is not indicitive of a properly functioning HPTA nor, have I ever seen a case where on-cycle administration of PCT-type compounds resulted "lesser suppression" (BTW - that description leaves a lot of discussion as well) after the cycle. In every case, PCT is still a requirement.

Regards,

[Right Hook]

Awesome post DR C. Overall you are saying people SHOULD do pct correct? I know guys who have been on years and years and never come off. Is this safer then going off and on all the time constantly fluctuating hormone levels?

Seems as though the on/off protocol otherwise known as cycling could be just as damaging to the body, health, and hpta over time.