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java568 · 08-20-2008, 02:09 AM

Thanks for all the info

However, I was just wondering what you thought about this study:

J Nutr 1999 Nov;129(11):2037-42

Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat mass in overweight and obese humans.

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown to reduce body fat mass (BFM) in animals. To investigate the dose-response relationships of conjugated linoleic acid with regard to BFM in humans, a randomized, double-blind study including 60 overweight or obese volunteers (body mass index 25 to 35 kg/m(2)) was performed. The subjects were divided into five groups receiving placebo (9 g olive oil), 1.7, 3.4, 5.1 or 6.8 g conjugated linoleic acid per day for 12 weeks, respectively. Dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry was used to measure body composition [measurements at week 0 (baseline), six and 12]. Of the 60 subjects, 47 completed the study. Eight subjects withdrew from the study due to adverse events; however, no differences among treatment groups were found regarding adverse events. Repeated-measures analysis showed that a significantly higher reduction in BFM was found in the conjugated linoleic acid groups compared with the placebo group (P: = 0.03). The reduction of body fat within the groups was significant for the 3.4 and 6.8 g CLA groups (P: = 0.05 and P: = 0.02, respectively). No significant differences among the groups were observed in lean body mass, body mass index, blood safety variables or blood lipids. The data suggest that conjugated linoleic acid may reduce BFM in humans and that no additional effect on BFM is achieved with doses > 3.4 g CLA/d.

I don't mean to be argumentative. I just want to make sure that I maximize my money effectively.

Spetsnaz · 08-20-2008, 11:33 AM

After about 2 weeks on the EFA protocol, can't say it has kicked in yet...
3g EPA/DHA
15 caps of Tonalin+Guarana
2ml x 3 Sesamin
plus 7keto and forslean...

**dinoiii** · 08-25-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by java568

Thanks for all the info

However, I was just wondering what you thought about this study:

J Nutr 1999 Nov;129(11):2037-42

Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat mass in overweight and obese humans.

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown to reduce body fat mass (BFM) in animals. To investigate the dose-response relationships of conjugated linoleic acid with regard to BFM in humans, a randomized, double-blind study including 60 overweight or obese volunteers (body mass index 25 to 35 kg/m(2)) was performed. The subjects were divided into five groups receiving placebo (9 g olive oil), 1.7, 3.4, 5.1 or 6.8 g conjugated linoleic acid per day for 12 weeks, respectively. Dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry was used to measure body composition [measurements at week 0 (baseline), six and 12]. Of the 60 subjects, 47 completed the study. Eight subjects withdrew from the study due to adverse events; however, no differences among treatment groups were found regarding adverse events. Repeated-measures analysis showed that a significantly higher reduction in BFM was found in the conjugated linoleic acid groups compared with the placebo group (P: = 0.03). The reduction of body fat within the groups was significant for the 3.4 and 6.8 g CLA groups (P: = 0.05 and P: = 0.02, respectively). No significant differences among the groups were observed in lean body mass, body mass index, blood safety variables or blood lipids. The data suggest that conjugated linoleic acid may reduce BFM in humans and that no additional effect on BFM is achieved with doses > 3.4 g CLA/d.

I don't mean to be argumentative. I just want to make sure that I maximize my money effectively.

No thoughts of argumentative nature actually as I would encourage your continued questioning of things I put up. Those are my recommendations, but that is not to suggest they would never be ammended with additional data presentation. The only problem that I might have with the isolated study above is that it is not apparent to me whether this was a study that used Tonalin brand. Also, the length of study was limited to 3-months, which is not where positive mass changes of the 10,12 isomer are apparent. Another issue I would question is that there is no definition of starting body comp effects (outside of BMI which is a completely terrible marker without BF%, gender biases and so on) plus, trainning routines and dietary alterations are conspicuous by their absence when comparing to studies I have based my recommendations on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spetsnaz

After about 2 weeks on the EFA protocol, can't say it has kicked in yet...
3g EPA/DHA
15 caps of Tonalin+Guarana
2ml x 3 Sesamin
plus 7keto and forslean...

2 weeks and it appears you may have set your sights a bit high. Unsure what 2ml of Sesamin quantifies at nor what your dietary/training protocol look like which I suppose is comparable to the aforementioned study.

D_

**dinoiii** · 08-25-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

Bump for a great read. Wish the price of CLA would come down.

Look around - it is relatively "cheap" at certain places.

D_

GotTest · 08-25-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spetsnaz

After about 2 weeks on the EFA protocol, can't say it has kicked in yet...
3g EPA/DHA
15 caps of Tonalin+Guarana
2ml x 3 Sesamin
plus 7keto and forslean...

I did the above "stack" myself (minus the 7keto,forslean) and didn't notice much BF reduction in the abdominal area either. I'm careful NOT to say it didn't work, because there could be other factors that maybe I wasn't paying close attention too, like oooh...caloric intake

kplayon · 08-25-2008, 09:57 AM

D_ I know you use to be a MAN rep, so what are your thoughts on Vaporize? I took 3-6 softgels daily with 6-8 Tonalin CLA's daily.

Spetsnaz · 08-25-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinoiii

2 weeks and it appears you may have set your sights a bit high. Unsure what 2ml of Sesamin quantifies at nor what your dietary/training protocol look like which I suppose is comparable to the aforementioned study.
D_

Oops, its 2mg.
Was on 2000 cals a day with the TT/TC. (I have tried 2500 cals for 2 weeks without gaining weight so 2000 is a deficit). Loss only 3mm at the abs after. Rest came from elsewhere. I was wondering why my calves were so defined. I measured and the girth was less... hehe. BUT I WANT MY AB FAT GONE!!! I can live with less defined calves.

Now am about 1800 cals. Workout is 3 full body a week on a HST schedule.

I would say, 7-keto and forslean is almost as thermogenic TT/TC twice a day at 300mg/75mg as u indicated in a post. 5 more weeks of training and my EFA stash will run out. Can make an evaluation then.

Spetsnaz · 08-25-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GotTest

I did the above "stack" myself (minus the 7keto,forslean) and didn't notice much BF reduction in the abdominal area either. I'm careful NOT to say it didn't work, because there could be other factors that maybe I wasn't paying close attention too, like oooh...caloric intake

Am paying attention to calories, currently only 1 solid meal and the rest are protein shakes.
16mm at the abs using calipers. Want it down to 10mm at the end of this training cycle.
Think I will use H-Drol next. Cheaper than 11-oxo as seems to be a surer thing for most people.