[dinoiii]

Q: Does anyone here take Doxycycline for acne or some kinda of effection. And also, or has done a ph cycle at the same time. Going to ask a dermatolgist, just wanted imput. And can't post in prohormones section because for some reason when i click new thread, it signs me out.


A: Ok, lets do a bit of a chalk talk here...something your physician will likely NOT be able to address adequately is the question you have posed here.

I encourage your copying the info I am typing and taking to him for review, namely if he is on board with your PH use to begin with.

As a PH and given the current state of PH affairs, make your physician aware of the fact that these are C17 alkylated PHs (and ensure him of the potential hepatoxic effects). Tetracyclines (like Doxy...simply 2 substitutions to the molecular structure), do have the potential for hepatotoxicity...however, with oral dosing [acne typically gets dosed at about 250mg orally bid (or twice per day)], this is NOT that likely ... toxic effects to hepatocytes usually occur at the dose of 2 GRAMS parenterally (or IV). One cannot rule out the potential metabolic processing through various cytochromes (namely 3A4 - though it has NOT been settled completely as to how doxy and the tetracyclines are processed exactly and if the cytochromes touch them at all before glucuronidation byproducts - 2nd pass items grab hold...for more info - see "Short Topic Series III" in Open Articles section) that does very much so occur with many PHs, however, this will be compound-specific...so you cannot just say I want to use PHs....but qualify which PH you are talking about. This is the language that your physician may not be all that familiar with (not a knock to the physician at all...why the heck would (s)he know this information...that is why I encourage your sharing ALL of the info with him/her).

Be VERY careful in the sunlight or if you are a tanning bodybuilder...why? Doxy and other tetracyclines do have a severe photosensitivity reaction potential and IF THE AGENT YOU CHOSE HAS AROMATIZABILITY POTENTIAL, its estrogenic counters will also amplify this issue. It doesn't necessarily have to affect your skin either...it could result in something known as onycholysis (sort of a dissolving or peeling away of the nails) with subsequent pigmentation to your nails...you might think you can live with this feature, but believe me...it is NOT a turn on to the ladies my friend.

Wait til you hear this one! Tetracyclines like Doxy are by their very nature CATABOLIC! With this you may aggrevate something called azotemia (increased BUN and creatinine - kidney byproducts)...this is actually nitrogen depleting - hence that "N" that sits at the end of the BUN. So Dana, wouldn't PHs have the potential to counter this catabolic effect? NO! It is NOT that kind of muscular catabolism you may think is counteracted by the PH/PS/AAS, BUT actually more a toxic effect on the kidney tubules.





WARNING: I did NOT review the above poster's age before I typed this, however, if you are NOT beyond an age where your growth plates have officially closed, the coupling of doxycycline with a PH/PS/AAS has a synergist potential to depress bone growth - this is presumed reversible....but why chance it? I wouldn't and would encourage your physician to reconsider minimally prescribing the doxycycline if the above were true.




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[dinoiii]

Q: Was thinking of a halodrol cycle in late may which is when my allergies are bad and am taking singulair and zyrtec, just curious if you see a conflict taking these while on cycle or during pct? Thanks in advance. I will be 27 in may.



A: DISCLAIMER: The following information is for informational purposes only. Any application of the information found herein is theoretic rationale and should NOT be employed without consulting your own EXAMINING physician first.



First, I ask what dose of Zyrtec you are taking? Doses usually employed are in a range of 5-10mg. As an antihistamine, there are NOT interactions via the H1 receptor - however, the metabolism is extensively hepatic in nature and a wise idea would be to decrease the dose of your Zyrtec the duration of both the "on" cycle phase and PCT (w/ many different agents, although you never specified which PCT agents you are considering).

Hepatic Adjustment can be considered 1/2 dose for simplicity's sake:
i.e.
10mg --> 5mg
5mg --> 2.5mg

This should NOT effect efficacy, but metabolism of the mehylated product, et al will be decreased.



Second, Singulair - as a leukotriene inhibitor, your biggest issue is likely with other medications versus dietary supplements - methylated PH's included.





Q: Both are 10 mg. I ordered SAN attitude since they were out of inhibit-e, wanted inhibit-e since I had some left. also going to take a tribulus during pct. also perfect cycle throughout that time. is it alright to use the SAN on pct and when i run out to use the rest of the inhibit-e? also when is the best time to take the halodrol? I usually work out in the afternoon around 4 pm due to work. Thanks in advance dinoiii. you are of great help and knowledge.




A: Cycle:

- 5mg Zyrtec (break tab in half)
- 10mg Singulair

PCT:

- 10mg Zyrtec (bump back up due to ATD cP450 activation)
-10mg Singulair


ATD question - Attitude, replaced by Inhibit-E:
This question is more complex than I am letting on, but if your rationale is to solely get through PCT for a cycle of Halodrol...I question cycle length and necessity to actually extend use of such products for both. What was the intended length of your cycle?

Halodrol question - timing:
Are you planning one, two, etc... tabs per day?






Q: I was going to use one tab per day of halodrol. I have heard of some people getting good gains on only 15 day cycle. So I will do either a 15 or 30 day at 1 tab per day depending on gains and side effects. pct would depend on length of cycle. What are your suggestions on cycle length and pct length and dosages. I would love to see good gains, but have no problem going short if I have sides. Thanks dinoiii.


A: For the duration of your PCT realm, I would have it match my cycle length minimally. I have interesting thoughts about ATD that don't mimic the industry, but I still await someone to tell me I am wrong. Nonetheless, you chose Attitude so I think you would have enough for the duration necessary.

1 tab once a day is likely sufficient, splitting it up likely won't do a significant for efficacy.

Sometimes 2 tabs are used and at that point, taking them at different times may be of benefit. This is not necessarily very cost efficient.



How have your results been with Halodrol or are you just in the contemplation stage?





Q: I have ordered halodrol but have not yet used it. This would be my first cycle of anything so I am more worried about posssible sides than about gains. Eventhough the gains in size is what I am after since I am 6 foot and 155 lbs.

A: Well, you plan on running a cycle for how long???




Q: I was planning on running the cycle for 30 days, but if I start to notice some bad sides I will cut down to 15 to 20 days.

A: I don't anticipate many sides at 1 tab per day. I would be surprised if this wasn't another example of a dose-limited response.




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[GotTest]

Glad you posted this in regards to different meds.
I've got 2 meds in my system now, and I'm contemplating between 40mgEpi/90mgProp or 50mgHalo/90mgProp to run in a within a month.

I received a cortisone shot in my shoulder (rotator cuff) 6 weeks ago and recovery has been slow (75% there), but feeling better. Not sure if I'll need another injection.
My other med is Nasonex. I'm in FL so it's either pollen or mold down here. I just when it hits me.
What's you opinion about future cycle and nasonex/cortisone interaction?
Purely informational of course.

[dinoiii]

Keep in mind that all of the information that follows is for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY and subject to the disclaimer notice on my opening subforum page within the confides of the "stickies" there.

Originally Posted by GotTest

Glad you posted this in regards to different meds.
I've got 2 meds in my system now, and I'm contemplating between 40mgEpi/90mgProp or 50mgHalo/90mgProp to run in a within a month.

I received a cortisone shot in my shoulder (rotator cuff) 6 weeks ago and recovery has been slow (75% there), but feeling better. Not sure if I'll need another injection.
My other med is Nasonex. I'm in FL so it's either pollen or mold down here. I just when it hits me.
What's you opinion about future cycle and nasonex/cortisone interaction?
Purely informational of course.

Cortisone: active metabolite prednisolone is metabolized by the cytochrome P450 enzyme 3A4...the same enzyme involved in androgen metabolism. In this case, it is highly likely that prednisone can act as an inducer of 3A4 which may lower the efficacy of these steroidal agents. Prednisone only has a half-life of one hour though so the potential of interaction with it if you are not subjected to further injection is slim.

Nasonex: Extensive metabolism to multiple metabolites - 4 in particular predominantly discussed in the literature. There are no "major" metabolites detectable in plasma. Upon in vitro incubation, one of the minor metabolites formed is 6ß-hydroxy-mometasone furoate. In human liver microsomes, the formation of the metabolite is regulated by cytochrome P-450 3A4. It is unclear whether this will induce the enzyme and/or inhibit it from the pharmacodynamic/kinetic data we know.



What is true of the cases described above, the potential for interaction exists in both and potential dose adjustment is indeed likely required (dependent upon how close to your supplemental cycle you are taking them). That said, it is important to express your intent to your EXAMINING physician to see if (s)he will make modifications before beginning any new supplemental regime.



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[GotTest]

Thanks for filling me in Doc!
I would have never gotten this much info from my ortho doc or my ENT doc.
(should I send you a copay LOL)
I am amazed at how often and in so many ways the cytochrome P450 enzyme 3A4 is utilized in the body. I never would have guessed it would have played a role in metabolizing Nasonex

[dinoiii]

Yeah, the 3A4 is probably the most widely recognized producer of clinically-significant interactions we know of in the cytochrome world.


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