Cycle Suggestions

[69oxo]

I'm 18 years old and have been working out for about a year now and i have just recently started a cycle of tren extreme (19-nor tren). I plan on running it for 8 weeks with a final dosage of 35 mg 4 times daily (4th or 5th week will be 4 caps). I have been taking the tren with omegas.
I am taking plenty of protein with 4-5 solid meals not including shakes, daily. I want my arms to get alot bigger so i might keep them at low reps as for the rest of my body i am pretty big and will probably switch to higher reps closer to the second half of the cycle. I plan on playing rugby again next year so im working out legs hard and running on the weekends.
For some reason i can preacher curl 110 lbs for bis and skull crush 110 lbs fairly easily but my arms seem to only get cut not get much larger ( i may have done too many drop sets for arms, suggestions?)
My main objective is to gain arm size so how many times weekly, reps, change of routine advice etc would be great. I also wanted to know what would make the tren run more effectively, such as when to take it and what to stack it with in the second half of the cycle to maintain gains. Also im holding off on thistle till im on the nolva because it may deactivate some of the tren ( i picked up a liver support with out thistle in it). I would also like your view on weight gainers vs meals. ie for breakfast or missed meals (as far as size gains go long as the caloric intake is correct).

I am currently 215 lbs with about 20-24% bf. I plan on dropping a little bf and gain muscle to stay about the same weight.

For the first 4 weeks I will be bulking so 6 reps for arms and 6-8 reps for the rest of the body, with about 2-4 mins between sets (week 5-8, 8-12 reps)

Mon- Shoulders & traps
1. Military dumbell (4 sets)
2. Barbell Front raises (4 sets)
3. upright rows (4 sets)
4. Lateral raises (4sets)
5. Behind the neck barbell press (3 sets)
6. Bent over raises (3 sets)
7. Shrugs (6 sets)

Tues- Bis & Tris
1. Standing barbell curls (4 sets)
2. Sitting preachers closed grip (3sets)
3. Sitting preachers barbell wide grip (3 sets)
4. 45 degree curls (3 sets)
5. Closed grip bench press (4 sets)
6. Weighted Dips (3 sets)
7. Skull crushers (4 sets)
8. Pull downs (4 sets)
9. Kickbacks (burnout)
10. Cable curls (burnout/negative)

Wed- Legs & Abs
Bike as cardio for warmup (5 mins)
1. Squats (3 sets)
2. Leg press, lunges as drop sets (3sets)
3. Leg extensions, lunges as drop sets (3 sets)
4. Ab machines (6-8 sets)
5. Leg lifts (3 sets)
6. Medicine ball decline (3 sets)
7. Cardio (20 mins)

Thurs- Back & traps
1. Dead lifts (3 sets)
2. Dumbell rows (3 sets)
3. Row Machine (3 sets)
4. Pull downs (3 sets)
5. Pull downs behind neck (3 sets)
6. bent over rows (3 sets)
7. Back extensions (3 sets)
8. Cables for delts (3 sets)

Fri- Chest
1. Barbell Bench (3 sets)
2. Incline dumbell press (3 sets)
3. Dumbell press (3 sets)
4. Decline dumbell press (3 sets)
5. Cable curls (3 sets)
6. lower chest cable curls (3 sets)

sat, sun - cardio and rest

I don't necessarily think i can heal on this workout without the tren so my schedule may look different after the cycle, if anyone has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Also during my PCT (Nolva) i would like to know an effective routine.

[LLLLern]

Originally Posted by 69oxo

I have been working out for about a year now and i have just recently started a cycle of tren extreme (19-nor tren). I plan on running it for 8 weeks with a final dosage of 35 mg 4 times daily (4th or 5th week will be 4 caps). I have been taking the tren with omegas.
I am taking plenty of protein with 4-5 solid meals not including shakes, daily. I want my arms to get alot bigger so i might keep them at low reps as for the rest of my body i am pretty big and will probably switch to higher reps closer to the second half of the cycle. I plan on playing rugby again next year so im working out legs hard and running on the weekends.
For some reason i can preacher curl 110 lbs for bis and skull crush 110 lbs fairly easily but my arms seem to only get cut not get much larger ( i may have done too many drop sets for arms, suggestions?)

I am currently 215 lbs with about 20-24% bf. I plan on dropping a little bf and gain muscle to stay about the same weight.

For the first 4 weeks I will be bulking so 6 reps with about 2-4 mins between sets (week 5-8, 8-12 reps)

Mon- Shoulders & traps
1. Military dumbell (4 sets)
2. Barbell Front raises (4 sets)
3. upright rows (4 sets)
4. Lateral raises (4sets)
5. Behind the neck barbell press (3 sets)
6. Bent over raises (3 sets)
7. Shrugs (6 sets)

Tues- Bis & Tris
1. Standing barbell curls (4 sets)
2. Sitting preachers closed grip (3sets)
3. Sitting preachers barbell wide grip (3 sets)
4. 45 degree curls (3 sets)
5. Closed grip bench press (4 sets)
6. Weighted Dips (3 sets)
7. Skull crushers (4 sets)
8. Pull downs (4 sets)
9. Kickbacks (burnout)
10. Cable curls (burnout/negative)

Wed- Legs & Abs
Bike as cardio for warmup (5 mins)
1. Squats (3 sets)
2. Leg press, lunges as drop sets (3sets)
3. Leg extensions, lunges as drop sets (3 sets)
4. Ab machines (6-8 sets)
5. Leg lifts (3 sets)
6. Medicine ball decline (3 sets)
7. Cardio (20 mins)

Thurs- Back & traps
1. Dead lifts (3 sets)
2. Dumbell rows (3 sets)
3. Row Machine (3 sets)
4. Pull downs (3 sets)
5. Pull downs behind neck (3 sets)
6. bent over rows (3 sets)
7. Back extensions (3 sets)
8. Cables for delts (3 sets)

Fri- Chest
1. Barbell Bench (3 sets)
2. Incline dumbell press (3 sets)
3. Dumbell press (3 sets)
4. Decline dumbell press (3 sets)
5. Cable curls (3 sets)
6. lower chest cable curls (3 sets)

sat, sun - cardio and rest

I don't necessarily think i can heal on this workout without the tren so my schedule may look different after the cycle, if anyone has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Also during my PCT (Nolva) i would like to know an effective routine.

140 MG IS A BIT MUCH

[Right Hook]

Lol, I like the OP's screen name.

[GotTest]

Welcome aboard!
You've come to the right forum to get some good SOLID advice.

Doc will give you some SOLID suggestions on workout/cycle but here's my opinion...
140mg/day is way too much for a Tren. I think your BP would skyrocket, and lethargy and back pumps will have you laying on the couch all day.

The workout looks pretty intense for a 6 rep range (assuming this a 6 rep failure routine), 5 straight days a week. I was able to do a split routine (Mon Tue Thur Fri) while on a Tren cycle and made GREAT gains in strength/size with 4-6reps/ 12 -14 sets per muscle group.

Man, your doing 22 sets for shoulders at a 6 rep range. I'd be rippin' tendons at my age.
I know your ON but damn!

[mw1]

[quote=GotTest;35664]Welcome aboard!
You've come to the right forum to get some good SOLID advice.

Doc will give you some SOLID suggestions on workout/cycle but here's my opinion...
140mg/day is way too much for a Tren. I think your BP would skyrocket, and lethargy and back pumps will have you laying on the couch all day.

And he is 18 yo

[69oxo]

[quote=mw1;35821]

Originally Posted by GotTest

Welcome aboard!
You've come to the right forum to get some good SOLID advice.

Doc will give you some SOLID suggestions on workout/cycle but here's my opinion...
140mg/day is way too much for a Tren. I think your BP would skyrocket, and lethargy and back pumps will have you laying on the couch all day.

And he is 18 yo

Good looks, my friend said the same thing, and laughed when i told him the guy who sold the pills told me to take 4 caps to start the cycle and end with 6. 6 is near lethal and I knew that 4 was overdosing to start and would kill receptors and possibly future cycles, but i thought if he said 4 was ok then ending on 4 would be fine. Shows how much retailers care about our health.
I'll keep it at 35mg 3 times a day if need be, now that you mention the back pumps... i was sprinting the other day doing intervals and my back became paralyzed cramped up for 10 mins after i started doing long distance kind of like a charlie horse. This is interesting because it doesn't even happen nearly as intensely while doing dead lifts, usually. I think it happens when tension is prolonged like running long distance or playing a sport with alot of back involved like basketball.
Any bad effects as far as being 18 yo, i know plenty of people under 18 roiding and this isn't even methylated.
Also i feel invincible never close to tired and never even close to being sore even if i do the same muscle consecutively, id like input on whether or not doing a few hard sets of a muscle already trained that week is necessarily over training (while on the tren of course).
Id like to know the way i should cycle nolva aswell. Using as little as possible because tren doesn't aromatize anyways and nolva is liver toxic. (is tren as toxic as nolva?)

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by 69oxo

I'm 18 years old and have been working out for about a year now and i have just recently started a cycle of tren extreme (19-nor tren). I plan on running it for 8 weeks with a final dosage of 35 mg 4 times daily (4th or 5th week will be 4 caps). I have been taking the tren with omegas.

Well, the problem with tren products is the greater majority are inaccurately labeled - either way, this seems like a large dose for a novice with this compound. I would probably be inclined to agree with the masses here.

I am taking plenty of protein with 4-5 solid meals not including shakes, daily. I want my arms to get alot bigger so i might keep them at low reps as for the rest of my body i am pretty big and will probably switch to higher reps closer to the second half of the cycle. I plan on playing rugby again next year so im working out legs hard and running on the weekends.

The success of your quoted rep scheme likely depends on your personal workout history. The principle of overload may be what merits being tweaked and provided volume is kept at bay to some level (in other words, keep the number of sets down) as you increase the weight.

For some reason i can preacher curl 110 lbs for bis and skull crush 110 lbs fairly easily but my arms seem to only get cut not get much larger ( i may have done too many drop sets for arms, suggestions?)

Well, first a preacher curl is NOT a primary move for "biceps" but the "brachioradialis" based on physiological movements. But still, there seems to be more inherently wrong here. Keep in mind that your parenthetical statement may be very well accurate as biceps and triceps are likely some of the smallest muscle bellies in the body (perhaps unfortuantely so, I know).

My main objective is to gain arm size so how many times weekly, reps, change of routine advice etc would be great. I also wanted to know what would make the tren run more effectively, such as when to take it and what to stack it with in the second half of the cycle to maintain gains. Also im holding off on thistle till im on the nolva because it may deactivate some of the tren ( i picked up a liver support with out thistle in it). I would also like your view on weight gainers vs meals. ie for breakfast or missed meals (as far as size gains go long as the caloric intake is correct).

Medical Muscle - my consultation company recommends changing routines every 4 weeks (but you'll hear many variations on this theme). Heck I have some people changing things more frequently as well - it really depends on what you are asking for in full.

Nolva may very well kill your subsequent gains, so I wouldn't appreciate exotic gains while using this item.

Weight Gainers are glorified protein powders + cheap carbohydrate fillers (not kidding - carbs are cheap - hence why companies put them in; any company that has a pure weight gainer powder does it for the money alone, I assure you). Then to top it off, they'll ask you to take 4-6 scoops. Ummmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but 4-6 scoops of any protein powder yields 400-600 calories. Jesus! Get a regular protein powder and add your own carbs - it will save you many, many dollars.

I am currently 215 lbs with about 20-24% bf. I plan on dropping a little bf and gain muscle to stay about the same weight.

A goal shared by many. A general recomp may be your best bet here in that case.

For the first 4 weeks I will be bulking so 6 reps for arms and 6-8 reps for the rest of the body, with about 2-4 mins between sets (week 5-8, 8-12 reps)

Ok, this info is only pertinent with the number of sets which looking ahead is by far too many.

Mon- Shoulders & traps
1. Military dumbell (4 sets)
2. Barbell Front raises (4 sets)
3. upright rows (4 sets)
4. Lateral raises (4sets)
5. Behind the neck barbell press (3 sets)
6. Bent over raises (3 sets)
7. Shrugs (6 sets)

Tues- Bis & Tris
1. Standing barbell curls (4 sets)
2. Sitting preachers closed grip (3sets)
3. Sitting preachers barbell wide grip (3 sets)
4. 45 degree curls (3 sets)
5. Closed grip bench press (4 sets)
6. Weighted Dips (3 sets)
7. Skull crushers (4 sets)
8. Pull downs (4 sets)
9. Kickbacks (burnout)
10. Cable curls (burnout/negative)

Wed- Legs & Abs
Bike as cardio for warmup (5 mins)
1. Squats (3 sets)
2. Leg press, lunges as drop sets (3sets)
3. Leg extensions, lunges as drop sets (3 sets)
4. Ab machines (6-8 sets)
5. Leg lifts (3 sets)
6. Medicine ball decline (3 sets)
7. Cardio (20 mins)

Thurs- Back & traps
1. Dead lifts (3 sets)
2. Dumbell rows (3 sets)
3. Row Machine (3 sets)
4. Pull downs (3 sets)
5. Pull downs behind neck (3 sets)
6. bent over rows (3 sets)
7. Back extensions (3 sets)
8. Cables for delts (3 sets)

Fri- Chest
1. Barbell Bench (3 sets)
2. Incline dumbell press (3 sets)
3. Dumbell press (3 sets)
4. Decline dumbell press (3 sets)
5. Cable curls (3 sets)
6. lower chest cable curls (3 sets)

sat, sun - cardio and rest

I don't necessarily think i can heal on this workout without the tren so my schedule may look different after the cycle, if anyone has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Also during my PCT (Nolva) i would like to know an effective routine.

Holy Volume Batman!

Even on an oral C17-alkylated cycle, it may not offer enough recovery prowess with this volume in many areas for true unadulterated "mass."

Sat and Sun - Cardio and Rest...hmmmm, make up your mind - you're either doing "cardio" or "rest" but doing cardio doesn't equate with rest. Take a day or three off! Seriously. Forget the cardio for now. During your season, your incorporation "may" be wise, but now with an impending "size" goal. Dump it!

IF you opt to continue with Nolva - 20mg is the MAX you'd want to include.

A reverse ramp with an AI may be your best mode of attack here.


D_

[usf97j4x4]

To the OP:

I used to be a victim of the weight gainer products. Now I pretty much make my own although sometimes if in a time crunch i'll use a gainer (cytogainer).

I use about 2 scoops of ON chocolate whey, 1 banana, 2 scoops natural PB, 1/2 to 1 cup of skim milk, and some WMS powder OR 1/2 cup of oats (powdered in a grinder), and ice to consistency. That right there blows most gainers out of the water and tastes good to boot. Also, check the cholesterol you get with most gainers - crazy.

Sometimes i'll use EV olive oil as well

As for your routine, I agree with Dr Houser - way, way too much. It's no wonder you're not gaining the size you want. Muscles need time to grow.

[69oxo]

Ok, First off as far as the nolva, is it needed? since this doesn't convert. and what can i use instead to keep more gains (i wasnt planning on doing the 30mg and working down like a aromatizing cycle). I was being an idiot on the cycle, i did every muscle every day and i can see how much i wasted now, just because i wasn't getting sore. Ill keep the reps low and the sets minimum. As far as the routine, could i have a bi tri workout and what i should change it to because i have been working arms for a long time i know its not high weight but when you skull crush 115, 15 times and your arms are my size, thefrustration is rediculous. I see dudes with arms twice as big doing 80's and thats why i train 110% every time no matter what, i feel so small in comparison so i try five times harder. Does it take time after strength to gain actual mass? i cant figure this out. All the focus enhancers and pre workout stimulants don't do anything, ive never walked into the gym and tried less than 110% even hungover its all mindset.
As for cardio, i would like to get bigger but i need stamina, while bulking i will keep it at a minimum and only do bikes to warmup and stop the conditioning.
I don't understand why big dudes stay for 2 hours then, is this circut training?