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Old 09-18-2007, 02:18 PM   #11
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MVP
Vit C forms
Citrate is the first krebs cycle one listed
curcumin, co10, ashwaghanda, grape seed, are under dosed... among other things
Quercetin inclusion even if its low
ALA vs R-ala or other form
mixed tocopherols should be first
low calcium
low magnesium and different form
No amino acid chelates

ZMK
Copper
no iron
No amino acid chelates
tablet
Potassium before bed?
high Selenium
no calcium
borderline low molybedenum for bodybuilders

still looks very good. Might need to split the minerals into two products to help absorb it.
Old 09-18-2007, 07:49 PM   #12
 
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I like it...couldn't resist joining the forum to take a guess I see. Welcome aboard! Nice first post canes!



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Old 09-18-2007, 07:51 PM   #13
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I like it...couldn't resist joining the forum to take a guess I see. Welcome aboard! Nice first post canes!



D_
I agree, he gets mad reps from me, that's a GREAT first post.. to bad he didn't introduce himself in the intro forum.. I'm assuming bb.com??
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:19 PM   #14
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I like it...couldn't resist joining the forum to take a guess I see. Welcome aboard! Nice first post canes!



D_
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Originally Posted by RisingAgainst View Post
I agree, he gets mad reps from me, that's a GREAT first post.. to bad he didn't introduce himself in the intro forum.. I'm assuming bb.com??
wow thanks guys but come on you had most of those already. I think I remember reading some good post from risingagainst so i appreciate the compliment.
Dinoii it is really cool that you said that. I have learned a lot from reading your writing and i'll like to thank you for that. I can't wait to read the next CU, did that come out yet?
Ya I guess I couldn't resist registering but I been lurking hear for a little awhile. I didn't know there was some were to introduce yourself. Yes, I do most of my posting on bb.com but I read at mind and muscle and sometimes anabolic minds. OK I am done derailing this thread...
Old 10-10-2007, 12:23 PM   #15
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dinoii it would be interesting to see your response and reasoning especially because i have vague ideas of what wrong with a multi but i don't know/forget why. for example i thought quercetin was odd to use daily and had to have more effects then just anti oxidant and then later i come across this.

Quote:
1: Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2007 Jul 1;222(1):89-96. Epub 2007 Apr 24.
Links
The quercetin paradox.
Boots AW, Li H, Schins RP, Duffin R, Heemskerk JW, Bast A, Haenen GR.

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Maastricht, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. a.boots@farmaco.unimaas.nl

Free radical scavenging antioxidants, such as quercetin, are chemically converted into oxidation products when they protect against free radicals. The main oxidation product of quercetin, however, displays a high reactivity towards thiols, which can lead to the loss of protein function. The quercetin paradox is that in the process of offering protection, quercetin is converted into a potential toxic product. In the present study, this paradox is evaluated using rat lung epithelial (RLE) cells. It was found that quercetin efficiently protects against H(2)O(2)-induced DNA damage in RLE cells, but this damage is swapped for a reduction in GSH level, an increase in LDH leakage as well as an increase of the cytosolic free calcium concentration. To our knowledge, this is the first study that indicates that the quercetin paradox, i.e. the exchange of damage caused by quercetin and its metabolites, also occurs in living lung cells. Following depletion of GSH in the cells by BSO pre-treatment, this quercetin paradox becomes more pronounced, confirming that the formation of thiol reactive quercetin metabolites is involved in the quercetin paradox. The quercetin paradox in living cells implies that the anti-oxidant directs oxidative damage selectively to thiol arylation. Apparently, the potential toxicity of metabolites formed during the actual antioxidant activity of free radical scavengers should be considered in antioxidant supplementation.

PMID: 17537471 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Also do you have any thoughts on antioxidants reducing inflammation and therefore gains and perhaps other possible negative side effect of antioxidants. For example, i have just read that long-tern supplementation with Vit C. seems to decreases the levels of your antioxidative enzyme and that "ROS appears to actually play a role in skeletal muscle contractile force." This follow this link if your interested in this discussion.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4356443
Old 10-10-2007, 04:54 PM   #16
 
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dinoii it would be interesting to see your response and reasoning especially because i have vague ideas of what wrong with a multi but i don't know/forget why. for example i thought quercetin was odd to use daily and had to have more effects then just anti oxidant and then later i come across this.



Also do you have any thoughts on antioxidants reducing inflammation and therefore gains and perhaps other possible negative side effect of antioxidants. For example, i have just read that long-tern supplementation with Vit C. seems to decreases the levels of your antioxidative enzyme and that "ROS appears to actually play a role in skeletal muscle contractile force." This follow this link if your interested in this discussion.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4356443


I think it was actually on bb.com that I placed up a few posts some time ago on this topic. Let me see if I can track it down.

I will have to take a look at this link you posted. I am always open to more discussion on heated topics like this.

I wish you would post more over here...you seem to have significant offerings.



And a note to all...this is the FINAL WEEKEND to get in on this competition. Let's light up some thoughts, shall we?




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Old 10-12-2007, 05:30 AM   #17
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And a note to all...this is the FINAL WEEKEND to get in on this competition. Let's light up some thoughts, shall we?

D_
Bump!!

Personally, i'm really interested to see D's take on this. But to any other sherlock holmes out there, do take a shot!
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:12 PM   #18
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Hey D, would love to see your wrap-up on this.. much appreciated!
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:17 PM   #19
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Another bump. LOL!!!

BTW, I started taking these, and am pleased.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:47 PM   #20
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Another bump. LOL!!!

BTW, I started taking these, and am pleased.
You impatient punk.. lol

I'm still waiting on the word.. but if you like it.. it seems pretty neat..
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