Prostate Support on Cycle

[Hacksaw]

What are your thoughts on taking Nettle Root and Milk Thistle while on cycle. If a Class I works through androgen receptors wouldn't something that binds to them,like Milk Thistle and Nettle Root,be counter productive?

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

What are your thoughts on taking Nettle Root and Milk Thistle while on cycle. If a Class I works through androgen receptors wouldn't something that binds to them,like Milk Thistle and Nettle Root,be counter productive?

I'm unsure I follow this question. Milk Thistle has two more classically defined actions...both of which are through the 3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran lignan - but others are also gaining acceptance as offering similar effect. This action of the "divanil" extract is that it binds SHBG (globular protein that attached to and subsequently deactivates testosterone) and by doing so:

[1] Frees up bound testosterone, making it more bioavailable (a good thing)

-and-

[2] Prevents estradiol from sticking to the SHBG while the SHBG is attached to the prostate cell membrane. If estradiol could link up to it while it was attached, it would start a cascade of insulin-like growth factor to stimulate prostate cell growth, causing prostate enlargement and nettle stops this from happening a couple of ways. (once again...a good thing).

If there is something you have read about nettle (the whole herb) in and of itself binding the AR...then with the improvement of herbal extracts these days on the order of 95% Divanil, this almost becomes a moot point...provided the extract is there.



-------------------------

There IS an indirect model suggested for Milk Thistle interacting with the AR gene expression, however - one MUST make note that this has ONLY been show in cancer cell lines (petri dishes) rather than truly understanding its connection, though the anti-prostate cancer offering of silymarin and silbinin is quite intriguing to make the connection - though to date, it may be premature.


If you are familiar with my writing, I do NOT encourage prostate support while on cycle for many reasons. However - something like milk thistle is more often touted as an agent for aid of liver malfunctions, albeit second-rate. I actually do NOT recommend Milk Thistle on cycle or even in PCT as my first choice for liver support still, but moreso SAMe for liver support (a trend the PCT: ACV series started many years ago; and now it is picking up).




D_

[Hacksaw]

What I wanted to say was Saw Palmetto. I could say the mistake was becouse my mind runs all over the place,but it is probobly becouse I am an idiot!

The reason behind the question is Voodoo says Class I PH's act through androgen receptors. I am running Bold and H-Drol.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

What I wanted to say was Saw Palmetto. I could say the mistake was becouse my mind runs all over the place,but it is probobly becouse I am an idiot!

The reason behind the question is Voodoo says Class I PH's act through androgen receptors. I am running Bold and H-Drol.

Yeah, the class system is really to show the predominance rather than the "only" way for a particular PH/PS/DeS/AAS to work. In any event, I do NOT see true rationale without prostate woes in place to employ said agents.

You may also be interested to know that I had a colleague report a case study on Saw Palmetto and liver toxicity (fulminant hepatitis) at the 2005 Baltimore Chapter of the American College of Physicians (ACP) poster presentation gathering...so additional concerns may arise for those employing a significant number of C17-alkylated agents as well.


D_

[UNCfan1]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Yeah, the class system is really to show the predominance rather than the "only" way for a particular PH/PS/DeS/AAS to work. In any event, I do NOT see true rationale without prostate woes in place to employ said agents.

You may also be interested to know that I had a colleague report a case study on Saw Palmetto and liver toxicity (fulminant hepatitis) at the 2005 Baltimore Chapter of the American College of Physicians (ACP) poster presentation gathering...so additional concerns may arise for those employing a significant number of C17-alkylated agents as well.


D_

Are u saying there is possible liver toxicity with Saw Palmetto?

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by UNCfan1

Are u saying there is possible liver toxicity with Saw Palmetto?

HA! Don't start that rumor - especially with herbal extracts which vary from day-to-day and batch-to-batch, which manufacturers won't tell you.

What I am saying is that in 2005, there was ONE case-study that did suggest the correlate and until more data comes through, it may be best to watch their employment with C17-alkylated agents, especially if a frequent user (I don't know - like say Voo...)


D_

[UNCfan1]

No rumors started by me lol

What do u take for prostate support during and PCT? Is in it the PCT articles? Its been awhile since I have read them, looks like its time to research again

[dinoiii]

There is big news on the PCT:ACV front that will be released soon.

The popular e-series has gone through a facelift and will be re-released VERY soon!!h!

If you have a family history of prostate cancer or some rationale for predispositon or you are sincerely aged (you're not) then it may be worthwhile, otherwise, likely not and there is TRUE data to back this.

Stay tuned...

D_

[UNCfan1]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

There is big news on the PCT:ACV front that will be released soon.

The popular e-series has gone through a facelift and will be re-released VERY soon!!h!

If you have a family history of prostate cancer or some rationale for predispositon or you are sincerely aged (you're not) then it may be worthwhile, otherwise, likely not and there is TRUE data to back this.

Stay tuned...

D_

Ok thanks D! Looking forward to the PCT articles.

[muad33b]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

(I don't know - like say Voo...)

Voo's like the town crack addict, 'cept he's hooked on PH/PS... and he's looking to OD with his latest adventure... at this point he should probably weigh like 460 pounds, and bench press mac trucks!


Still, how can you not like a guy who takes nipple pics and posts em on the net? That takes a whole lotta sack...