BodyOpus Supplement Questions

[CincoUno]

I read through the thread and understand the diet, the setup and the reasoning I also understand the training I am just unclear on a few things.
-The orthomolecular dosing of a B-complex...what does this translate to?
-And you mention you, "have 3,5 diiodothyronine on hand in case Euthyroid Sick Syndrome becomes an issue." How would one decide when to take this? what are the symptoms?
-You reference your log but I notice the article is from 2005 is there anywhere this log can be found? I searched your previous threads and found nothing.

As a new member the as Dr. Houser section of this site has been quite educational so far.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by CincoUno

I read through the thread and understand the diet, the setup and the reasoning I also understand the training I am just unclear on a few things.

Ok, we'll take them in turn:

-The orthomolecular dosing of a B-complex...what does this translate to?

B-complex is one that can be HEAVILY dosed. "Orthomolecular Dosing" is something that was first described by Linus Pauling with Vitamin C - in fact, won him a Nobel Prize in fact. But really, it just is a notion that implies that an RDA (recommended dietary allowance) falls far short of an ODI (optimum dietary intake) and that heavy dosing is likely ok - especially in the case of Vitamin C and many B vitamins being part of the water-soluble set.

That is with a few notable exceptions:

[1] Niacin: If dosing too high for too long, you may see hepatotoxicity (liver toxicity) develop and some may never get used to any flushing response

[2] Vitamin B6: If dosing too high for too long, you can note peripheral neuropathy effects (numbness and tingling in hands and feet, etc...). It is unclear the significance, but it is probably noteworthy and something to avoid for prolonged periods because of the damage seen to the peripheral nerves.

Nonetheless, I usually recommend people take breaks from these heavy vitamin dosing on weekends as B vitamins are found in many carbohydrate-laden items of the bread class.

-And you mention you, "have 3,5 diiodothyronine on hand in case Euthyroid Sick Syndrome becomes an issue." How would one decide when to take this? what are the symptoms?

What Euthyroid Sick Syndrome most often manifests iteslf as is a problem with converting inactive thyroid hormone (T4) into active thyroid hormone (T3) in the periphery. Still, while this is not the only way it could manifest, it is primary on hypOcaloric diets ( mind you, the carb-ups usually combat this effect, but over the long-term it may prove to be problematic). The way it manifests is usually as hypothyroid style symptoms:

Fatigue
Weakness
Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
Coarse, dry hair
Dry, rough pale skin
Hair loss
Cold intolerance (can't tolerate the cold like those around you)
Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
Constipation
Depression
Irritability
Memory loss
Abnormal menstrual cycles
Decreased libido

to name a few. The combination of hypOcaloric diets plus these symptoms MUST minimally increase suspicion.

-You reference your log but I notice the article is from 2005 is there anywhere this log can be found? I searched your previous threads and found nothing.

My log? i.e. - the follow-up articles? They never happened as it took too long for the Divanil to get to me at the time...Divanil was more of a commodity.

As a new member the as Dr. Houser section of this site has been quite educational so far.

Well welcome, hopefully you stick around and find it continually beneficial in informational. Kind of hoping it render itself the one-stop shop for information - especially with many plans forthcoming for leanbulk.

I think many will find it this way all too soon. So, stick around, we're just getting started.


D_

[CincoUno]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

B-complex is one that can be HEAVILY dosed. "Orthomolecular Dosing" is something that was first described by Linus Pauling with Vitamin C - in fact, won him a Nobel Prize in fact. But really, it just is a notion that implies that an RDA (recommended dietary allowance) falls far short of an ODI (optimum dietary intake) and that heavy dosing is likely ok - especially in the case of Vitamin C and many B vitamins being part of the water-soluble set.

That is with a few notable exceptions:

[1] Niacin: If dosing too high for too long, you may see hepatotoxicity (liver toxicity) develop and some may never get used to any flushing response

[2] Vitamin B6: If dosing too high for too long, you can note peripheral neuropathy effects (numbness and tingling in hands and feet, etc...). It is unclear the significance, but it is probably noteworthy and something to avoid for prolonged periods because of the damage seen to the peripheral nerves.

Nonetheless, I usually recommend people take breaks from these heavy vitamin dosing on weekends as B vitamins are found in many carbohydrate-laden items of the bread class.

Interesting I didn't notice the b-vitamin breaks on weekends. So looking at a random B-complex with the profile posted below. Would you recommend a triple dose or seperate dosing of each b-vit? I assume it would be somewhat weight dependent so we'll say a male in between 225-250.

Serving Size2Tablets
Servings Per Container30
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Vitamin C (From Magnesium Ascorbate) 60mg 100%
Vitamin B-1 (From Thiamine HCl And Cocarboxylase) 50mg 3330%
Riboflavin (As Riboflavin And From Riboflavin-5-Phosphate Sodium) 50mg 2940%
Vitamin B-3 (From Inositol Hesanicotinate And NAD) 50mg 250%
Vitamin B-6 (From Pyridoxine HCl And P-5-P Monohydrate 50mg 2500%
Folate (As Folic Acid) 400mcg 100%
Vitamin B-12 (As Methylcobalamin And Dibencoside) 250mcg 4170%
Biotin 300mcg 100%
Vitamin B-5 (From Calcium D-Pantothenate And Pantethine) 50mg 500%
Betaine 50mg †
Alpha Lipoic Acid 50mg †
Choline (From Choline Bitartrate) 25mg †
PABA (Para-Aminobenzoic Acid) 25mg †
Inositol (From Inositol Hexanicotinate And Hesaphosphate) 15mg †
CoQ10 (Coenzyme Q10) 500mcg †

What Euthyroid Sick Syndrome most often manifests iteslf as is a problem with converting inactive thyroid hormone (T4) into active thyroid hormone (T3) in the periphery. Still, while this is not the only way it could manifest, it is primary on hypOcaloric diets ( mind you, the carb-ups usually combat this effect, but over the long-term it may prove to be problematic). The way it manifests is usually as hypothyroid style symptoms:

Fatigue
Weakness
Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
Coarse, dry hair
Dry, rough pale skin
Hair loss
Cold intolerance (can't tolerate the cold like those around you)
Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
Constipation
Depression
Irritability
Memory loss
Abnormal menstrual cycles
Decreased libido

to name a few. The combination of hypOcaloric diets plus these symptoms MUST minimally increase suspicion.

So really it's just on hand for rare cases? Better safe than sorry.

The nootropic cocktail looked interesting as well but a pain to source all the separate ingredients.

Well welcome, hopefully you stick around and find it continually beneficial in informational. Kind of hoping it render itself the one-stop shop for information - especially with many plans forthcoming for leanbulk.

I think many will find it this way all too soon. So, stick around, we're just getting started.

Will do I still have at least another week or so worth of stickys to read.

One more question. On no carb days for post-workout, just try and eat a meal soon after? or is the use of free form aminos warranted? I've started playing around with some of the numbers to look at how many carbs my refeed would entail is almost frightening haha

Thanks for the quick and thought out response.