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Old 08-17-2007, 09:42 PM   #1
 
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Default Developing routines

This is some theory that I discussed while helping a friend develop a routine for gaining mass while keeping his power up. He was looking to break the mold and I was helping him develop an atypical routine. Let's get the discussion rolling fellas

Theory:

Exercise choice:

Most major muscle groups are trained in at LEAST 2 angles. I originally read this concept in an interview with Arnold but solidified the concept in anatomy and kinesiology classes. This is the most important concept that you can learn when designing a routine IMO.

For example, focus of bis, tris, quads, hams, and calves is varied by muscle length across 2 joints.

Focus of pec is USUALLY by particular fibers addressed. Although you are avoiding upper fiber specific exercises which MAY compromise your injury. Note that in this case, most fibers FIRE across all angles... just to varying degrees of which ones take the brunt of the load.

In some routines, it's also an option to treat lats and rhomboids/interscapulars as 2 seperate muscle groups. I frequently do this for upper and lower abs well. Although it's difficult to isolate these exercises, it is possible to sway the brunt of force to particular fibers IMO.

Rep schemes:

1) 5x5 is tried and true for power. The same goes for 8-12 reps for growth. There is no need to try to alter what works, but adding to and modifying these concepts can be what pushes us to the next level.

2) P/RR/S concepts are some of the best THEORY that I've read, especially when trying to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time (like we all want to do on cycle). Problem is, doing a power week only once every 3 weeks neglects that power moves are in a large part a skill. They require "practice" by the muscle groups and neurologic systems to make progress. You've seen many times on powerlifting forums where successful competitors will deadlift 2-3 times per week. Sounds insane but it works for them because of the skill aspect to lifting heavy.

Remedy this problem by incorporating power moves right into your hypertrophy routine.

Also, this routine gives you the opportunity to incorporate P/RR/S tempo concepts, if you are mentally able to keep up with the changes within one routine. This helps to force firing of type I, IIa, and IIb fibers types.

3) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you need to do either high reps or a shock technique to get a pump. Bodybuilding should be a FUN hobby/lifestyle and the pump is certainly one of the most fun aspects of lifting. Contrary to most die hard sources, I believe the pump has its place in our routines, even if it only serves as a mood enhancer, ego booster, and confidence builder.

In order to efficiently incorporate the pump into your routine, try drop sets. For example, perform 8-12 reps to failure of a specific exercise as this is EXACTLY what is prescribed for hypertrophy. Then drop or superset to get your fun pump without focusing your entire routine on the pump. The option to simply do 2 sets of 20 (that I listed in the example) is to save time as a weight this light won't require multiple warm up sets and we don't always have 70 or 80 minutes to dedicate to lifting.

Exercise pairings:


1) Compound moves break down the most fibers, require the most energy, and cause the largest boost in natural hormone response. All of these reasons make them the backbone of this plan as your initial lifts.

I've also found that ANY muscle group that I pair up with squats and deadlifts will grow, even if it has an unrelated function. For example, I frequently follow squats with a shoulder routine.

2) I personally like to split up quads and hams because of reason #1. It allows for an "extra" day to begin with a compound move, rather than doing a typical leg routine. In a typical leg routine, you miss out on the opportunity to give a boost to a lagging smaller muscle group.

3) Note that you have at least 2 days of rest before working the same muscle as a primary OR secondary mover. For example, while squats are performed on monday, hams are a secondary muscle. Hams are not worked again until Friday to ensure maximum ability and recovery.

Sources:

-3 or 4 college anatomy courses and 2 kinesiology courses
-muscle testing theory by Kendall
-Muscle and Fitness: IMO an excellent theoretical source for building routines although you do have to sift through a lot of BS in the mean time
-Franco Columbo book of bodybuilding that I read as a kid in the 80s
-P/RR/S articles from the Iron Man Mag website
-Arnold interviews and articles: the man was just the best not to mention that his quotes are entertaining... "no better feeling than a simultaneous pump"

Last edited by celc5; 08-17-2007 at 09:49 PM.
Old 08-17-2007, 09:45 PM   #2
 
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Default Sample routine for hitting arms twice/wk with a previous pec injury considered

Focus of this routine is to hit bis and tris twice per week. Consideration is also taken for "cautious" movements to avoid compromising the pec (I'm a physical therapist in case you're wondering my credibility with mentioning the injury over and over).

Monday (quads/short tris)

Squats (5x5)
Leg Extension (2x20 or 2xdrop sets)
Decline skull crushers (5x5)
Cable Pushdowns (2x20 or 2x drop sets)

Tuesday (back and short bis)

BB Row (5x5)
Lat Pulldowns (2x20 or 2x drop sets)
EZ Preacher Curl (5x5)
Standing Cable Curl (2x20 reps or 2x drop sets)

Thursday (chest and long tris)

Decline Bench (5x5)
DB Flat Bench (2x20 or 2x drop sets)
Flat skull crushers (5x5)
DB overhead (2x20 or drops... substitute incline triceps extensions if db overhead irritates pec issue)

Friday (hams and long bis)

SLDL (5x5)
Ham Curls (2x20 or drops)
BB Curls (5x5)
Incline DB curls (2x20 or drops)

Saturday (shoulders and abs)

Shrugs (5x5) SS posterior delts (reps following each set)
Lateral raise (3x15-20) SS Neutral grip DB press with slight incline (3x15-20) (pre-exhausted with the laterals and modified to avoid pec irritation)
Abs- you're capable of creating a core routine

*obviously, add a third set or more advanced techniques for the isolation/rep range moves when energy/time permits
*calves can be added to any of the above routines. I prefer (5x5) supersetting with burn outs with body weight or seated for the soleus
Old 08-18-2007, 10:00 AM   #3
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Default good post bro

that was a good read, and will be for lifters of all kinds. Thanks!
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Old 08-18-2007, 06:16 PM   #4
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great post celc! great info
Old 08-19-2007, 12:54 PM   #5
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nice work celc. I've done some specifics in regards to training protocol, you are workin around injury it seems, Whereas I had specific days where I trained a specific area of the body. I.e. Upper chest day focus, short bi focus, lat width, lat thickness,.....
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Old 08-19-2007, 02:39 PM   #6
 
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Thanks for showing interest fellas.

B, you hit the nail on the head. The person I was helping had a pec tear a few months back, which is why there is a peculiar selection of chest, tris, and shoulder movements.

Just by reading your post, I can tell you "get it" with muscle lengths, which isn't a very intuitive concept relative to other more obvious variables. Again, you are correct that you could split up upper and lower chest, back width vs. thickness, etc etc ...but still applying Arnold's rule of at least 2 angles per muscle group to those splits.

Just to add to your ideas B, adding posterior delts and traps to a back workout while adding front and middle delts to a chest workout is something to consider. Still following the same rules but with a fancy split for motivation and a bit of fiber shock.
Old 08-20-2007, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
Thanks for showing interest fellas.

B, you hit the nail on the head. The person I was helping had a pec tear a few months back, which is why there is a peculiar selection of chest, tris, and shoulder movements.

Just by reading your post, I can tell you "get it" with muscle lengths, which isn't a very intuitive concept relative to other more obvious variables. Again, you are correct that you could split up upper and lower chest, back width vs. thickness, etc etc ...but still applying Arnold's rule of at least 2 angles per muscle group to those splits.

Just to add to your ideas B, adding posterior delts and traps to a back workout while adding front and middle delts to a chest workout is something to consider. Still following the same rules but with a fancy split for motivation and a bit of fiber shock.
Funny you mention this, I like the updated version of the push pull system, with legs being a 3rd day, rather than in the mix.....

For chest/shoulders/ tri's I like the tie-ins, and like to do a giant drop, on a smith machine it works wonders. Start with an upright (90deg angle) press, and do drops until you've reached an slight incline 8-10sets. Then supersetting from there works well. Dips s.setted with side lying lateral raises 4sets, Pec flyes (flat or inc.) s.setted with front raises or cable crossovers 4sets, I prefer the cybex machines at a very low setting, you still get the chest and a great deal of front delts (which most don't realize this occurs and nearly dominates the move when the setting is low). We can even throw in rest/pause close-grip pushups for a swelling triceps finisher.
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Old 08-23-2007, 05:55 PM   #8
 
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B, I've "ran" the adjustable bench from 90 to flat to decline etc. That's exactly what the angles concept is about dude... killer burn for sure!

This discussion carried on, so I figured I would paste it in here as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good question about muscle lengths. It's actually a physics concept but let's make it simple for the purpose of designing routines.

Muscle Physio 101: Muscles are able to contract the strongest at their optimum length. It's usually at this length that the most number of fibers will contract as well. The muscle will contract less efficiently if it is in a stretched or slack position. In these disadvantaged positions, some groups of fibers will contract to a greater extent, while others will contract less efficiently.

The goal of the short vs. long split is not to attack muscles in a completely disadvantaged position at the maximum stretched point or overly slack position. The goal is to slightly move TOWARDS those points in relation to the OPTIMUM length.

*A "cheat" way to envision this concept with bis and tris is to look at elbow position.

Biceps:
Optimum length: elbow at side or slightly behind the plane of the body
Short biceps: the elbow is in front of the body (slight slack)
Long biceps: the eblow is behind the plane of the body

Triceps:
Optimum length: somewhere just slightly in front of the body (IMO the decline bench creates this angle)
Short Tris: elbow at side or behind the body
Long Tris: elbow at 90 degrees or anywhere above shoulder level

So you can insert ANY biceps or triceps exercise into optimum, short, or long groups.

Last edited by celc5; 08-23-2007 at 05:58 PM.
Old 08-23-2007, 07:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
Biceps:
Optimum length: elbow at side or slightly behind the plane of the body
Short biceps: the elbow is in front of the body (slight slack)
Long biceps: the eblow is behind the plane of the body
If you're talking bout the long/short head of the biceps, i'd like to add the following pointers.

Short Head: Wide grip/curl with pinkie up
Long Head: Narrow grip (about 1 hand distance apart)
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:24 PM   #10
 
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