Intro

[venom]

Thanks for such a warm welcoming, everyone! Very happy to be here.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Hello Gabe. Pleasure to meet you, your brother and do our informal round table discussions.

For those reading along, he's actually quite modest!

He and his brother, Jacob - have actually convinced me to re-visit some in-house trials with clients exploring some of the clinical sides to HMB supplementation.

Check out this article from this dynamic duo (oh yeah and then there's Anssi who has sold out with support of USP Labs, but that's besides the point ):

Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review

Nonetheless, I have a sneaking suspicion you will see more between myself, Shawn, Layne Norton, and the brothers Wilson.


D_

From that paper I get the impression HMB supplementation is more effective in untraiined individuals. Maybe useful on a cut...

[growstrong]

I took the same thing from it Travis... very impressive study Venom

[dinoiii]

It may very well be more effective in untrained individuals, HOWEVER, this is when volume of distribution is not accounted for. In other words, when people train - their body comp status is acclimated accordingly (increased muscle mass etc...). You cannot assume 3 grams for the untrained yields the same results for the trained...this is one of the fundamental issues with studies assessing said tallies.

Perhaps 6, or even 9 (may be overzealous) would supply judicious dosing parameters in the trained for accurate comparison. Venom could probably due this more justice in discussion though - as this is his primary area. I will say this - the Wilson brothers' presentation at the ISSN conference convinced me to give it a second go beginning this week. I will start out, however, using 6 grams (will report more as I explore options).


D_

[Right Hook]

D_ volume of distribution makes sense. What brand of HMB are you using?

[venom]

In addition to what dino said, if HMB is to be effective, you are likely going to have to cause significant muscle damage. Trained athletes are much more resistant to muscle damage. And several of the studies we examined implemented little to no variation in their programs. So we propose that chronic periodized training programs are needed with trained athletes. And its never been tested when combining catabolic stimuli such as weight training, dieting, and cardio as bodybuilders do pre-contest.

It also may be useful in clinical domains such as cancer, aids, etc.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Travis

D_ volume of distribution makes sense. What brand of HMB are you using?

ON

Middle-ground price; 1000mg (not many 1 gram caps out there)

Originally Posted by venom

In addition to what dino said, if HMB is to be effective, you are likely going to have to cause significant muscle damage. Trained athletes are much more resistant to muscle damage. And several of the studies we examined implemented little to no variation in their programs. So we propose that chronic periodized training programs are needed with trained athletes. And its never been tested when combining catabolic stimuli such as weight training, dieting, and cardio as bodybuilders do pre-contest.

It also may be useful in clinical domains such as cancer, aids, etc.

Ahhh, we know I have the variation covered (ask my clients; every 4 weeks, they get new regimes).

As far as clinical scenarios, I think the most applicable populace in my practice is those experiencing hypercholesterolemia.

Think Byetta + HMB versus prototypical statin therapeutics. This is an area I will have some true clinical numbers up for - probably on my site or in the CU.

Stay tuned....

D_

[Right Hook]

Does HMB have any effect on HDL? From the paper I dont think there was a study with HMB and HDL measurements (I could have missed it..)? The benefits on total cholesterol were something I had no idea about.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Travis

Does HMB have any effect on HDL? From the paper I dont think there was a study with HMB and HDL measurements (I could have missed it..)? The benefits on total cholesterol were something I had no idea about.

Well, I don't think so - at least via direct mechanisms.

HDL's primary responsibility is to eliminate LDL and TG's really, so while other forms of lipid are being driven down, there could certainly be an indirect propensity for HMB to also drive down HDL (by default: less LDL, less need for HDL --> endogenous regulation).

This is probably not something beneficial for the average bodybuilder per se, but someone with overt dyslipidemia (really more genetic).

See, now we're talking my specialty. Gabe - let's roundtable all this up, shall we?


D_

[GeneGnome]

Welcome!