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B-natural · 10-01-2007, 04:57 PM

protein still effects insulin and can be converted through gluconeogenesis, I think you'd have less likelihood of having the response, but it would still inevitably occur

Fujitsu · 10-01-2007, 05:19 PM

Great info - thanks for the responses!

muad33b · 10-01-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-natural

protein still effects insulin and can be converted through gluconeogenesis, I think you'd have less likelihood of having the response, but it would still inevitably occur

In theory, yes, however, I work out in the morning, so I'm having this pre-workout meal coming off a fasted state, so I would think that unless I go crazy with the protein shake (> ~50-60g) I'm not in danger of gluconeogenesis... for me, the issue being (and the reason I started this thread) that I work out at 7:30am, and getting up at 5:30am to down a shake kills me, and I often have trouble getting back to sleep... if I can have that shake at 6:30, and my pre-workout supps at 7, that makes life a lot easier... I don't need carbs pre-workout, I'm used to not having them, and don't really notice a "strength" increase from it... unless I've been no-carbing for awhile, and have no glycogen.

Hoping Trans will still comment.

**transXisomer** · 10-01-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muad33b

In theory, yes, however, I work out in the morning, so I'm having this pre-workout meal coming off a fasted state, so I would think that unless I go crazy with the protein shake (> ~50-60g) I'm not in danger of gluconeogenesis... for me, the issue being (and the reason I started this thread) that I work out at 7:30am, and getting up at 5:30am to down a shake kills me, and I often have trouble getting back to sleep... if I can have that shake at 6:30, and my pre-workout supps at 7, that makes life a lot easier... I don't need carbs pre-workout, I'm used to not having them, and don't really notice a "strength" increase from it... unless I've been no-carbing for awhile, and have no glycogen.

Hoping Trans will still comment.

Well trans is here muad!

It would be best if your train at 7:30 am to have finished your 'pre-workout' meal by 5:30 really... if you want to experiment taking it an hour pre-workout then try it, if you feel fine then it could be alright... but really you want a 2-hour window there. Food too close to the workout can lead to headaches, nausea, lessened blood flow to the muscle, etc.

B-natural · 10-02-2007, 09:37 AM

Would taking BCAA's at this time be ideal, they are fast absorbing, maybe 10-15g's 1hr prior?

**transXisomer** · 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-natural

Would taking BCAA's at this time be ideal, they are fast absorbing, maybe 10-15g's 1hr prior?

Well, there is this theory that if you don't take in ALL the EAA's (which include BCAAs) in a 1:1:1:1 etc ratio, that you actually can come up to a overall protein balance negative. Your body can't make EAAs, only the NEAAs, so that leaves nine amino acids you HAVE to ingest for your body uses. To make your skeletal muscle protein (proteins are classified having ALL 20 amino acids + usually over 50 amino acids lengths long) you still need the other EAAs even if you ingest tons of BCAAs. So if you ingested a ton of BCAA, and your body still needs the other EAAs, you still can't complete protein synthesis, and you sit in a overall protein balance negative till you get those in. So what I do is I add additional L-Tryptophan to my EAA cocktail (I think all on the market are missing the EAA L-Tryptophan) so that I am not missing an individual EAA, cause you need it anyway, your body can't make it.

So, really I would recommend a full spectrum EAA over the BCAA... an hour before would be fine. And I could be wrong on all the above (Dinoiii is actually the person who told me about the above) but for now I won't recommend anyone take just a BCAA or incomplete EAA product when all the EAA studies were done with ALL the EAAs, not missing L-Tryptophan like all the EAA products out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Therefore, a balance of essential amino acids is necessary for a high degree of net protein utilization

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

The net protein utilization is profoundly affected by the limiting amino acid content (the essential amino acid found in the smallest quantity in the foodstuff), and somewhat affected by salvage of essential amino acids in the body.

ddawg91 · 10-03-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transXisomer

Well trans is here muad!

It would be best if your train at 7:30 am to have finished your 'pre-workout' meal by 5:30 really... if you want to experiment taking it an hour pre-workout then try it, if you feel fine then it could be alright... but really you want a 2-hour window there. Food too close to the workout can lead to headaches, nausea, lessened blood flow to the muscle, etc.

I have started the 2 hour pre workout (4 AM and workout at 6) meal as suggested by Dinoiii and I must say that I have had no issues with it. It does take some getting use to but if you go to bed a little earier (if possible) at night to account for the earlier time the you are good. This also allows for me to take my creatine and ba/cm 1 hour preworkout as well.