Vitex for Prolactin Control

[Right Hook]

So there seems to be numerous studies out there on the benefits of Vitex (chaste tree) and its ability to decrease prolactin levels. From what I have seen most of the studies are on women however it still seems to have a positive effect on dopamine levels.

Dinoiii in your PCT: A clinician's view you state it should not be used as a pro-test supplement:

Chaste Berry (Vitex Agnus – Castus)

For menstrual cycle irregularities and PMS – yes.
For testosterone ... Ummmmm – N-E-X-T!

http://www.leanbulk.com/forum/showth...305/index.html


Could you expand on this (or is there another thread I am missing somewhere on Vitex?)?

Also it seems it would be a good tool ON cycle with something like PP to prevent gyno onset. Thoughts on it's use ON cycle?

One study for example (I'm sure your aware of...):

1: Phytomedicine. 2003 May;10(4):348-57.Links
Chaste tree (Vitex agnus-castus)--pharmacology and clinical indications.
Wuttke W, Jarry H, Christoffel V, Spengler B, Seidlová-Wuttke D.

Department of Clinical and Experimental Endocrinology, University of Göttingen, Germany. ufkendo@med.uni-goettingen.de

Extracts of the fruits of chaste tree (Vitex agnus castus = AC) are widely used to treat premenstrual symptoms. Double-blind placebo-controlled studies indicate that one of the most common premenstrual symptoms, i.e. premenstrual mastodynia (mastalgia) is beneficially influenced by an AC extract. In addition, numerous less rigidly controlled studies indicate that AC extracts have also beneficial effects on other psychic and somatic symptoms of the PMS. Premenstrual mastodynia is most likely due to a latent hyperprolactinemia, i.e. patients release more than physiologic amounts of prolactin in response to stressful situations and during deep sleep phases which appear to stimulate the mammary gland. Premenstrually this unphysiological prolactin release is so high that the serum prolactin levels often approach heights which are misinterpreted as prolactinomas. Since AC extracts were shown to have beneficial effects on premenstrual mastodynia serum prolactin levels in such patients were also studied in one double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical study. Serum prolactin levels were indeed reduced in the patients treated with the extract. The search for the prolactin-suppressive principle(s) yielded a number of compounds with dopaminergic properties: they bound to recombinant DA2-receptor protein and suppressed prolactin release from cultivated lactotrophs as well as in animal experiments. The search for the chemical identity of the dopaminergic compounds resulted in isolation of a number of diterpenes of which some clerodadienols were most important for the prolactin-suppressive effects. They were almost identical in their prolactin-suppressive properties than dopamine itself. Hence, it is concluded that dopaminergic compounds present in Vitex agnus castus are clinically the important compounds which improve premenstrual mastodynia and possibly also other symptoms of the premenstrual syndrome.

PMID: 12809367 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge D!

[GotTest]

Great find Travis!
I'm curious of the dosing and standardized extracts available to reduce prolactin.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by GotTest

Great find Travis!
I'm curious of the dosing and standardized extracts available to reduce prolactin.

RA told me that a lot of these studies are funded by interest groups, but it seems there are a ridiculous amount of studies out there showing Vitex as a prolactin control.

I honestly am not very good at figuring out who is funding studies (I've never worked or been edumammacated in a science/study field) so I usually just have to ask, lol.

Your question is a good one though...

[Iron Warrior]

I've hear the same things about Vitex and B-6 when it comes to prolactin control. They're worth a shot but don't dose the B-6 higher then 300mg for the long haul, it's not good for your nerves. If you do choose to go with them then still keep some dostinex/caber on hand just in case. The thing with a lot of these studies is that they're not done on BBers so it's hard to extrapolate sometimes.

[dinoiii]

In order to answer your question, let’s simply ask WHY:
WHY is that the proposed mechanisms of action are hypothesized.

[a] LH/FSH: The rationale behind why the serum gonadotropins are stimulated is due to the shift of excess estrogen (as the role of the plant is one of phytoestrogen) to progesterone. In order for the body to recoup its estrogen levels lost, it will ramp up the LH/FSH in response to the level that has been altered.

[b] Prolactin: The increased level of LH/FSH decreases prolactin; its kind of an inverse relationship. This would be why an increased level of estrogen in the post-cycle time frame and thereby a decreased level of LH/FSH would lead to a prolactin INCREASE. Still, the idea of why the progesterone:estrogen ratio being altered in the female is based on something you’ll actually never possess as a male – the corpus luteum (beyond the scope of this post).




Of course, I could have merely settled on the logical flaws:

[1] The iridoid glycosides (monoterpenes) including agnuside, aucubin, and eurostosid are the major constituents considered active – many products aren’t even standardized appropriately to produce said effects.

[2] How many of the suggested trials were performed in someone without a uterus (ovaries, et al…)? Perhaps people marketing this compound should stick to things inherently male.





Now, how many have I lost...


D_

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Now, how many have I lost...


D_

(raises hand and gets out wikepedia)

[thesinner]

NO! wikipedia is bad.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

In order to answer your question, let’s simply ask WHY:
WHY is that the proposed mechanisms of action are hypothesized.

[a] LH/FSH: The rationale behind why the serum gonadotropins are stimulated is due to the shift of excess estrogen (as the role of the plant is one of phytoestrogen) to progesterone. In order for the body to recoup its estrogen levels lost, it will ramp up the LH/FSH in response to the level that has been altered.

[b] Prolactin: The increased level of LH/FSH decreases prolactin; its kind of an inverse relationship. This would be why an increased level of estrogen in the post-cycle time frame and thereby a decreased level of LH/FSH would lead to a prolactin INCREASE. Still, the idea of why the progesterone:estrogen ratio being altered in the female is based on something you’ll actually never possess as a male – the corpus luteum (beyond the scope of this post).




Of course, I could have merely settled on the logical flaws:

[1] The iridoid glycosides (monoterpenes) including agnuside, aucubin, and eurostosid are the major constituents considered active – many products aren’t even standardized appropriately to produce said effects.

[2] How many of the suggested trials were performed in someone without a uterus (ovaries, et al…)? Perhaps people marketing this compound should stick to things inherently male.





Now, how many have I lost...


D_

Okay, let me dumb this down a bit (I'm good at that):

[a] I wasnt really looking at it from a test boosting perspective but to me that sounds like another benefit, which I dont think your arguing there.

[b] I understand what your saying here...and perhaps this is just beyond my understanding b/c in my noob mind if it works on women it should/could potentially work in a similar pathway in men. However I understand this is not always true.

[1] Basically your saying there arent many worthy products out there... Anything you've seen that might be worthy?

[2] Not sure...I will search some more. There has to be at least one out there, right? AND I havent really seen this marketed to men all that much. Has anyone else?

Originally Posted by thesinner

NO! wikipedia is bad.

Dewd wikepedia knows all. What are your thoughts on Vitex sin?

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by Travis

Dewd wikepedia knows all. What are your thoughts on Vitex sin?

wikipedia THINKS it knows all.

I like vitex. It's cheaper than midol :P

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Travis

[a] I wasnt really looking at it from a test boosting perspective but to me that sounds like another benefit, which I dont think your arguing there.

Neither was I actually. The prolactin efferts begin with the phytoestrogenic portion of the molecule shifting the imbalance to progesterone. If you haven't felt progesterone sides, well - there is a case to be made about the "wonders" of vitex.

[b] I understand what your saying here...and perhaps this is just beyond my understanding b/c in my noob mind if it works on women it should/could potentially work in a similar pathway in men. However I understand this is not always true.

Nope - because you don't have a menstrual cycle (at least I hope so). In effect, you will not possess a corpus luteum (luteal phase) to offer you the estro-->progesterone benefits.

[1] Basically your saying there arent many worthy products out there... Anything you've seen that might be worthy?

If it were at all efficacious, I ask how many products you are aware of standardized correctly that are marketed toward men (i.e.- Test boosters like Biotest's Alpha Male, I think have this compound).

[2] Not sure...I will search some more. There has to be at least one out there, right? AND I havent really seen this marketed to men all that much. Has anyone else?

I await your report. It is in many test booster products for the suggested reason, but I think it holds no promise as an effective agent. If prolactin becomes an issue, something like Dostinex is needed to truly combat the pathology.

Originally Posted by thesinner

I like vitex. It's cheaper than midol :P

HA!



D_