Epistane Question

[realdeal124]

Im going to be starting a 4 week cycle of Epistane in Feb and plan on running Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support along with it to help with any loss of libido. MY question is how should i break up the dossages. im going to be taking the epi morning and night and the post cycle support also calls for two doses. Should i also take this morning and night?

[Bmlax22]

I think Epi has an 8 hour half life

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by realdeal124

Im going to be starting a 4 week cycle of Epistane in Feb and plan on running Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support along with it to help with any loss of libido. MY question is how should i break up the dossages. im going to be taking the epi morning and night and the post cycle support also calls for two doses. Should i also take this morning and night?

To obtain supraphysiologic hormonal changes, the ideal scenario would likely see you dosing the PH/PS/DeS at a time when your normal physiological test is already high. In most cases, this equals the morning. Dependent upon how high a dose you are going with, I know a lot of people that have success with a 3-dose protocol: 4:00am / 10:00am / 4:00pm, with the heaviest concentration in the morning.

In other words...you will add on to your overall dose by pushing a cap in the 1st dose - first, the second dose second, and third dose third.

So, lets say someone is following a 30/40/50/60 (completely illustrative and does NOT serve as a "recommendation" by me):

Your first week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 1 cap / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your second week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your third week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your fourth week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 2 caps


Remember that dosing will be highly dependent upon bodyweight so the aforementioned cycle is NOT illustrative of what people SHOULD use as this in some instances is a very high dose, however...this is the general progression that should give an example of how best to attain some (if any) benefit from the product or products like it. Keep in mind that your body's natural test production are highest in the morning and work to exploit this fact. Dosing said products before bed does NOT make a lot of sense in the "supplementation" sense.


You may want to review the thread on trans-resveratrol in this subforum and/or over at AM for more info on an intricate ingredient in the post-cycle support product you speak of.


D_

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Bmlax22

I think Epi has an 8 hour half life

I'd be curious if anyone could really point me to where this information is shown definitively. I wouldn't bank on this estimate.


D_

[growstrong]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

So, lets say someone is following a 30/40/50/60 (completely illustrative and does NOT serve as a "recommendation" by me):

Your first week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 1 cap / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your second week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 1 cap / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your third week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 1 cap

Your fourth week's dosing would see:
4:00am - 2 caps / 10:00am - 2 caps / 4:00pm - 2 caps


Remember that dosing will be highly dependent upon bodyweight so the aforementioned cycle is NOT illustrative of what people SHOULD use as this in some instances is a very high dose, however...this is the general progression that should give an example of how best to attain some (if any) benefit from the product or products like it. Keep in mind that your body's natural test production are highest in the morning and work to exploit this fact. Dosing said products before bed does NOT make a lot of sense in the "supplementation" sense.


You may want to review the thread on trans-resveratrol in this subforum and/or over at AM for more info on an intricate ingredient in the post-cycle support product you speak of.


D_

good dosing rec. I was wanting to give this product a try but didnt know about dosing... know I know... thanks doc.

[Train Heartnet]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

To obtain supraphysiologic hormonal changes, the ideal scenario would likely see you dosing the PH/PS/DeS at a time when your normal physiological test is already high.

Dinoiii, if this is the case, then what happen to people that are fully shutdown, if our physiological test is about zero at all time, does this means that we have less chance of obtaining supraphysiologic hormonal changes, when we consume these PH/PS/DeS during our shutdown state?

[dashforce]

Dinoii -- some people prioritize dosing orals a little before working out (like an hour before). Is this backed by science -- perhaps it's intended to add to the the PWO testosterone response, just like your suggestion for morning dosage?

Is there some synergistic effect of maximizing androgens in the morning, as you suggest, vs post workout, vs any other time of day? If the effect is only additive, it would seem that one might as well just dose whenever they want.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by Train Heartnet

Dinoiii, if this is the case, then what happen to people that are fully shutdown, if our physiological test is about zero at all time, does this means that we have less chance of obtaining supraphysiologic hormonal changes, when we consume these PH/PS/DeS during our shutdown state?

Yes reaching supraphysiological levels does become less and less and this is more or less another hypothesis as to why you become "less responsive" rather than androgen receptor downregulation that has also been hypothesized. With this, the pertinence of AM dosing later in cycle becomes less clear for the reasons you mention, however - keeping the AM dosing offering will allow for a more comfortable return to baseline. The same can be said for "pro-test" agents that are commonly employed during PCT (i.e. - Trib, Eurycoma, Fadogia, etc...) and probably moreso when you employ said agents into PCT.

Originally Posted by dashforce

Dinoii -- some people prioritize dosing orals a little before working out (like an hour before). Is this backed by science -- perhaps it's intended to add to the the PWO testosterone response, just like your suggestion for morning dosage?

Is there some synergistic effect of maximizing androgens in the morning, as you suggest, vs post workout, vs any other time of day? If the effect is only additive, it would seem that one might as well just dose whenever they want.

No science backs PH/PS/DeS in general actually (if you are looking for studies). One can certainly postulate, however, that having an increased test level around the workout (especially for things with very short half-lives) would certainly bode in the anabolic favor. Still, it doesn't stand to reason that you are achieving supraphsyiologic test levels (as test tends to be highest in the AM for the greater part of males), which is rationale that surrounds my AM-dosing protocols.



Basic Summary: Test levels are highest in AM, adding to those levels achieves greater than either alone, however this probably becomes less clear as your cycle goes on...still, coming off with normal gonadotropin spikes in pulsatile fashion, one would best be served using the exogenous androgens in the same fashion to approximate normal levels for cleaner recovery.


D_

[Train Heartnet]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Yes reaching supraphysiological levels does become less and less and this is more or less another hypothesis as to why you become "less responsive" rather than androgen receptor downregulation that has also been hypothesized. With this, the pertinence of AM dosing later in cycle becomes less clear for the reasons you mention, however - keeping the AM dosing offering will allow for a more comfortable return to baseline. The same can be said for "pro-test" agents that are commonly employed during PCT (i.e. - Trib, Eurycoma, Fadogia, etc...) and probably moreso when you employ said agents into PCT.





No science backs PH/PS/DeS in general actually (if you are looking for studies). One can certainly postulate, however, that having an increased test level around the workout (especially for things with very short half-lives) would certainly bode in the anabolic favor. Still, it doesn't stand to reason that you are achieving supraphsyiologic test levels (as test tends to be highest in the AM for the greater part of males), which is rationale that surrounds my AM-dosing protocols.



Basic Summary: Test levels are highest in AM, adding to those levels achieves greater than either alone, however this probably becomes less clear as your cycle goes on...still, coming off with normal gonadotropin spikes in pulsatile fashion, one would best be served using the exogenous androgens in the same fashion to approximate normal levels for cleaner recovery.


D_

Wow, this is really great info dinoiii..

So basically from my understanding testosterone is really the main deciding factor..

Can you clarify one thing for me, say for example a person is injecting exogenous testosterone (i.e. Test. Enth/Cyp) in conjunction with whatever PH/PS/DeS he's using, does this mean that this person will be able to maintain supraphysiologic level at all times without having to experience any loss of effect later on in the cycle even though he is fully shutdown?

[dashforce]

As far as AM vs PM dosage,

are you implying a synergistic effect rather than simply additive?

In other words, why isn't increasing "low" androgen levels (PM) just as effective as augmenting already high ones (AM)?