Hey Doc, Best Legal OTC PCT route

[outside backer]

WIth My profession in the military and the recent crackdowns. I cannot nor will not tempt fate to order any serms. SO im at somewhat of a dis-advantage. Im gonna give my one last Ph run before im all done for good. One final Push before I hit the big 30 and thats it.

Im running BCL' Super Halo. ( halodrol clone)

SO far what Ive got is

BCL's Superdex Xtreme ( looks basically like a novedex xt clone)
Bodybuilding.com - Black China Labs Superdex Xtreme PCT - Post Cycle Support! On sale now!

AN Drive

I3C
Compound N for Liver

Ive been reading alot on here at SAMe


How do I look? is there anything I should add or subtract?

Im 6'3 230 13.4% b/f at the moment. Ill prob follow standard dosing protocol 50 mg daily no longer then 4 weeks.

Kan-sam-ni-daaaaaaa

[dinoiii]

Yeah, if you are running the prototype (defined as 50mg or less of Halo x 4 weeks), then the following PCT setup is fine for people in similar scenarios to yours (though you must note that this is NOT a "recommendation" and will need tweaking based on bodyweight for most reading along).

Week 1: I3C 600mg, SAMe 600mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (1 cap), Drive
Week 2: I3C 400mg, SAMe 600mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (2 caps), Drive
Week 3: I3C 400mg, SAMe 400mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (3 caps), Drive
Week 4: I3C 200mg, SAMe 400mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (4 caps), Drive

* I'd keep Drive consistent based on body mass alterations over the course of your post-cycle regime.

Keep in mind that forskolin has been shown to have similar effects to Divanil extracts in freeing test through SHBG-binding, and while hypothetically causing an issue...this has never panned out in our blood labs with this agent.

Diosmin is an interesting component of the BCL product.


* IF You'd like to get more exotic for your setup with cortisol control (though you probably won't get a precipitous benefit, it may help you avoid a post-cycle crash):

Week 1: I3C 600mg, SAMe 600mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (1 cap), Drive, Arginine-based product (preferably A-AKG) spaced heavy in AM
Week 2: I3C 400mg, SAMe 600mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (2 caps), Drive, Arginine-based product spaced heavy in AM
Week 3: I3C 400mg, SAMe 400mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (3 caps), Drive, 7-keto DHEA (min. 200mg)
Week 4: I3C 200mg, SAMe 400mg, BCL Superdex Xtreme (4 caps), Drive, 7-keto DHEA (min. 200mg)




D_

[outside backer]

Rock on

I love being stateside i cna talk when u guys are awake


what do u mean heavily spaced in AM are we talking every hr for so many hrs?

My mornings start at 0530 am when i return to korea next month to finish my tour

[lionelxxl]

D, besides a low hormone count post cycle which doesn't justify a high starting AI dose, why else would you recommend it?

Most of the PCTs are ran 4,3,2,1 but its 1,2,3,4 this time around and i'm a little interested in your view on this.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by outside backer

Rock on

I love being stateside i cna talk when u guys are awake


what do u mean heavily spaced in AM are we talking every hr for so many hrs?

My mornings start at 0530 am when i return to korea next month to finish my tour

Quote exotic results from both an androgen receptor standpoint and cortisol receptor downregulation with hyperdosing (my particular favorite = ALCAR due to the versatility and lattitude this agent offers, but other carnitines are fine as well like PLC or LCLT).

When doing this, you must understand that test is highest in the AM and cortisol is highest in the AM. That said high androgen receptor and low cortisol receptor priming makes ... minimally ... theoretic sense. But say 1-3 grams combined carnitine every 3 hours or so. Say, 5:30am / 8:30am / 11:30am (would prefer the full 9 grams of combined carnitine for those over 200 pounds).

Originally Posted by lionelxxl

D, besides a low hormone count post cycle which doesn't justify a high starting AI dose, why else would you recommend it?

Most of the PCTs are ran 4,3,2,1 but its 1,2,3,4 this time around and i'm a little interested in your view on this.

I'm NOT certain what "most" of the PCTs entail, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to move down with your AI. Perhaps this misemployment is rationale for the confusion seen in labeling of "delayed" Gyno?

Well, this here is a low-aromatization agent (think of the Cl as kind of the part that will prevent this) so rebound hypERestrogenic states would likely be staved off until later into your PCT. This is AGENT-SPECIFIC though and it really depends on a lot of factors.

I am usually ok with people employing transdermal and/or oral-combined Formestane protocols while on cycle and concurrent low-dose hCG injections (if we are trying to completely evade aromatase in such a cycle...but this one I am not so concerned; specifically at the doses defined, et al).



D_

[temper35]

That is funny dinoiii, I was going to ask the same exact question as lionelxxl, more or less.

So because Halodrol and clones are a low in the "aromatization department", when setting up a PCT with a product like Novedex XT it would be a wise idea to escalate the dosage instead of taper it down?

Would the employment of PCT in this manner be varied greatly if a non methyl was added and it was also mild in terms of aromatization?

[outside backer]

i love alcar and have always been a big fan of it D

i forgot to mention that i have cycle support from AI and Ill prob use that in place of compound N and Use Compound N after I have finished every thing up

[m.samp]

dinoiii I am in a similar situation, my woman is a nurse, and is very lets just say investigative. She freaks out when I run a PH/PS cycle and would kill me if she found out about an AS cycle, but I degress. Anywho, a serm is out of the question right now, and I am planning on running a Bold/Pheravol/Trenadrol stack next month, and I am not really sure how to put togethor an effective otc pct for this type of stack. Any help would be much appreaciated.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by temper35

So because Halodrol and clones are a low in the "aromatization department", when setting up a PCT with a product like Novedex XT it would be a wise idea to escalate the dosage instead of taper it down?

The long and short of it is YES.

Would the employment of PCT in this manner be varied greatly if a non methyl was added and it was also mild in terms of aromatization?

Perhaps, but that is very hard to say with certainty without an example of a molecule you may have in mind.

Originally Posted by outside backer

i love alcar and have always been a big fan of it D

i forgot to mention that i have cycle support from AI and Ill prob use that in place of compound N and Use Compound N after I have finished every thing up

I just answered this question in another recent thread in this PCT:ACV subforum - check many of the recent posts.

Originally Posted by m.samp

dinoiii I am in a similar situation, my woman is a nurse, and is very lets just say investigative. She freaks out when I run a PH/PS cycle and would kill me if she found out about an AS cycle, but I degress. Anywho, a serm is out of the question right now, and I am planning on running a Bold/Pheravol/Trenadrol stack next month, and I am not really sure how to put togethor an effective otc pct for this type of stack. Any help would be much appreaciated.

Please note that I have had 4 cases of 1,4-androstenedione (BOLD)-induced gyno seen with clients, so the need for some sort of estrogen-blocker becomes pertinent. Likely while on cycle, as well. The use of transdermal formestane is probably your best on-cycle bet as people in similar situation have run it with success (of course, the Pheravol likely compounds the scenario - though some mild aromatization with things like this are a big contributing factor to the strength increases; so this remains up to you).

Trenadrol has had some naming issues with what is being suggested via label claims may not be what is exactly in the bottle.

As for PCT, the usual suspects are standard for me: I3C, SAMe, and ALCAR are three basic staples that I think pretty much any legal OTC PCT should center on.

As for estrogen-inhibition, I would encourage you to invest in a couple of things: Vitamin D3 - with a pretty high dose working to fend off some aromatization; your best bet would probably include using it at the start of PCT with high-dose I3C (probably higher than I have offered in the past - similar cycles have seen success with 800mg or higher to give you an idea of alternative feedback). Also, you will probably be best off with one of the usual Anti-E's available to you (the choice will be up to you which one) - 6-oxo (don't think the "Extreme" version is any more than a remarketed original at a higher tag), ATD (but couple with some libido-enhancement), or 6-Bromo (like AX's HDX2 or aPCT; if using the HDX2...add in about 400-600mcg of selenium per day to offset mineral depletion and subsequent issues with both sperm rebound, which your girlfriend may not enjoy - unsure where you are at with that OR with general bone health).



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