Hey dinoii, I am a little confused on AI dosage for PCT.

[temper35]

Here is my situation. Soon I plan on starting pretty much the exact cycle that is on sale in the LB store, of:

Week 1 - Bold @ 800mg
Weeks 2-6 - H-Drol @ 50mg and Bold @ 800mg

Now I am confused because in a previous thread you mentioned how with compounds with low aromatization, dosage of Novedex XT would best be tapered up during PCT.

I wouldn't consider myself part of the gyno-phobia crowd, but I am sure you have heard people mention the phenomenon of "delayed gyno". If this is even a reality, wouldn't using a 4 week dose of Novedex XT such as 1, 1, 2, 3, and ending on a 3 cap dose of the AI on the last week run the risk of this issue?

I have heard a certain Gaspari rep mention before that the dosage of Novedex XT should be tapered down, and I am just a little confused(as I've stated 3x haha).

Note: This is not the extent of my PCT *at all*, it is just this issue that is getting me. I want things to be perfect.

[kruz]

Originally Posted by temper35

Here is my situation. Soon I plan on starting pretty much the exact cycle that is on sale in the LB store, of:

Week 1 - Bold @ 800mg
Weeks 2-6 - H-Drol @ 50mg and Bold @ 800mg

Now I am confused because in a previous thread you mentioned how with compounds with low aromatization, dosage of Novedex XT would best be tapered up during PCT.

I wouldn't consider myself part of the gyno-phobia crowd, but I am sure you have heard people mention the phenomenon of "delayed gyno". If this is even a reality, wouldn't using a 4 week dose of Novedex XT such as 1, 1, 2, 3, and ending on a 3 cap dose of the AI on the last week run the risk of this issue?

I have heard a certain Gaspari rep mention before that the dosage of Novedex XT should be tapered down, and I am just a little confused(as I've stated 3x haha).

Note: This is not the extent of my PCT *at all*, it is just this issue that is getting me. I want things to be perfect.

I also have thought a similar point. I understand the ramping up of the AI but was thinking shouldn't one ramp down also to avoid rebound?

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by temper35

Here is my situation. Soon I plan on starting pretty much the exact cycle that is on sale in the LB store, of:

Week 1 - Bold @ 800mg
Weeks 2-6 - H-Drol @ 50mg and Bold @ 800mg

Now I am confused because in a previous thread you mentioned how with compounds with low aromatization, dosage of Novedex XT would best be tapered up during PCT.

I wouldn't consider myself part of the gyno-phobia crowd, but I am sure you have heard people mention the phenomenon of "delayed gyno". If this is even a reality, wouldn't using a 4 week dose of Novedex XT such as 1, 1, 2, 3, and ending on a 3 cap dose of the AI on the last week run the risk of this issue?

I have heard a certain Gaspari rep mention before that the dosage of Novedex XT should be tapered down, and I am just a little confused(as I've stated 3x haha).

Note: This is not the extent of my PCT *at all*, it is just this issue that is getting me. I want things to be perfect.

Originally Posted by kruz

I also have thought a similar point. I understand the ramping up of the AI but was thinking shouldn't one ramp down also to avoid rebound?

Honestly, IF you should embark on a program unto which you are unsure whether or not true HPTA shutdown has occured...the best option would be to wait only a few days before going mid-dose. In other words, I have never suggested 1 cap for 2 weeks of a 4-week PCT (most often, I just state things that have worked for others rather than offer "recommendation" anyway).

Still, I haven't even suggested one wait a full week if totally reliant on OTC AI's because the half-lives of the OTC PH/PS/DeS are very much so unknown. Still, use - if one assumes HPTA shutdown has occured, offers the same option without the test to aromatize in the first place, no?

I am uncertain what has been suggested by the Gaspari rep as I have not read the particular post in context, so this is unfair to offer opinion on it.

One scenario that has proven interesting is that we have 4 case reports of "virgin" gyno [virgin gyno defined as true overt gyno NOT pre-existing prior to cycle's genesis] secondary to 1,4-AD use (3 BOLD, 1 prior to BOLDs existence). This is one of the reasons it may be in your best interest to employ an OTC AI like E-form while ON cycle, cease use for about the first 5 days of PCT of both the E-form and then ramp up the AI.

This is NOT to suggest some sort of estrogen control wouldn't be ideal (ramped down I3C - much heavier dose than many products offer) and even a test-booster as some users have reported bad libido loss with 1,4-AD. If you are going to pharmaceutical agents (from your physician), a SERM may hold some mild rationale and in my opinion based on lab results and study review, the only one that harbors significant ability to return HPTA regularity is Clomid and is the preffered agent of choice. For many reasons, the others are NOT my primary offering, though if I "had" to say use of them be employed in any order, it might look like this: raloxifene > toremifene > nolva.

Delayed gyno has NO scientific backing whatsoever. The concept came about by improperly designed PCT regimes and swept the e-nation by storm 2 or 3 years ago. Still, in recent years...it has conspicuously disappeared from anyone who can really offer support that what they are labeling "gyno" stems from true mammary-tissue overgrowth.


D_

[temper35]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Honestly, IF you should embark on a program unto which you are unsure whether or not true HPTA shutdown has occured...the best option would be to wait only a few days before going mid-dose. In other words, I have never suggested 1 cap for 2 weeks of a 4-week PCT (most often, I just state things that have worked for others rather than offer "recommendation" anyway).

Still, I haven't even suggested one wait a full week if totally reliant on OTC AI's because the half-lives of the OTC PH/PS/DeS are very much so unknown. Still, use - if one assumes HPTA shutdown has occured, offers the same option without the test to aromatize in the first place, no?

I am uncertain what has been suggested by the Gaspari rep as I have not read the particular post in context, so this is unfair to offer opinion on it.

One scenario that has proven interesting is that we have 4 case reports of "virgin" gyno [virgin gyno defined as true overt gyno NOT pre-existing prior to cycle's genesis] secondary to 1,4-AD use (3 BOLD, 1 prior to BOLDs existence). This is one of the reasons it may be in your best interest to employ an OTC AI like E-form while ON cycle, cease use for about the first 5 days of PCT of both the E-form and then ramp up the AI.

This is NOT to suggest some sort of estrogen control wouldn't be ideal (ramped down I3C - much heavier dose than many products offer) and even a test-booster as some users have reported bad libido loss with 1,4-AD. If you are going to pharmaceutical agents (from your physician), a SERM may hold some mild rationale and in my opinion based on lab results and study review, the only one that harbors significant ability to return HPTA regularity is Clomid and is the preffered agent of choice. For many reasons, the others are NOT my primary offering, though if I "had" to say use of them be employed in any order, it might look like this: raloxifene > toremifene > nolva.

Delayed gyno has NO scientific backing whatsoever. The concept came about by improperly designed PCT regimes and swept the e-nation by storm 2 or 3 years ago. Still, in recent years...it has conspicuously disappeared from anyone who can really offer support that what they are labeling "gyno" stems from true mammary-tissue overgrowth.


D_

I understand, I never mean't to misquote you or anything. That wasn't my intention.

So basically if 3 caps would be the highest dose you were hitting of Novedex XT...there is NO proof to show that ending your PCT at the dose of 3 caps would be detrimental or could cause "Delayed gyno".

So to propose a PCT for Bold/Halo ( and once again, not including SAMe/I3C, etc. I have all of that and plan to use it), a PCT would possibly look like:

Novedex XT @ 1 cap for 3-4 days, followed by 2 caps to end the week. Then:
Week 2 @ caps
Weeks 3-4 @ 3 caps

Would the caps be dosed at night as the bottle suggest, or upon rising, or perhaps another time?

I also think I may go the route of E-Form while on cycle to cull any possibility, however large or small it may be, from the BOLD.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by temper35

I also think I may go the route of E-Form while on cycle to cull any possibility, however large or small it may be, from the BOLD.

In terms outside of the gyno discussion, the eform frequently helps to maintain libido. Personally, it also allows me to manipulate carbs more freely with less consequence, especially if I have any on cycle lethargy.

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by temper35

So to propose a PCT for Bold/Halo ( and once again, not including SAMe/I3C, etc. I have all of that and plan to use it), a PCT would possibly look like:

Novedex XT @ 1 cap for 3-4 days, followed by 2 caps to end the week. Then:
Week 2 @ caps
Weeks 3-4 @ 3 caps

It will likely be ok with an appropriate taper or stand still offering of the two aforementioned agents (I3C/SAMe).

Would the caps be dosed at night as the bottle suggest, or upon rising, or perhaps another time?

I prefer mid-morning for a time when test is being converted to estrogen at its highest rate. Of course, some people may awaken post-mid-morning, at which time, it becomes essentially moot.

I also think I may go the route of E-Form while on cycle to cull any possibility, however large or small it may be, from the BOLD.

I probably agree.

Originally Posted by celc5

In terms outside of the gyno discussion, the eform frequently helps to maintain libido. Personally, it also allows me to manipulate carbs more freely with less consequence, especially if I have any on cycle lethargy.

Fair statements.


D_

[temper35]

Quote:
Originally Posted by temper35 View Post
So to propose a PCT for Bold/Halo ( and once again, not including SAMe/I3C, etc. I have all of that and plan to use it), a PCT would possibly look like:

Novedex XT @ 1 cap for 3-4 days, followed by 2 caps to end the week. Then:
Week 2 @ caps
Weeks 3-4 @ 3 caps

Originally Posted by dinoiii

It will likely be ok with an appropriate taper or stand still offering of the two aforementioned agents (I3C/SAMe).
D_

Just to clarify before I piece this whole thing together. You mean taper as in tapering DOWN after the 3 caps is reached during the 3rd and 4th weeks?

[Botch]

dinoiii, would it be good to taper an AI with something highly aromatizable, like a 4ad/phera-plex combo? I have just run a 6.5 week cycle that looks like this:
week 1 4ad 1200mg M-drol 10mg
week 2 4ad 1200mg M-drol 20mg
week 3 4ad 1200mg (had wisdom teeth pulled, dropped M-drol to take pain meds)
week 4 4ad 800mg P-Plex 15mg
week 5 4ad 800mg P-Plex 15mg
week 6 4ad 600mg P-Plex 30mg
week 7 4ad 600mg P-Plex 30mg

*Ran support supps and 2 caps Hyperdrol X2 throughout.
I have Nolva but hate the stuff and would only use it in case of an emergency

I was thinking of a PCT like this:

week 1: 1 cap Hyperdrol X2 for first 3-5 days (2 caps rest of week); 800mg I3C; 800mg SAMe; 3-6g ALCAR in the AM, Phyto-Test 2x per day
week 2: 2 caps Hyperdrol X2; 600mg I3C; 600mg SAMe; 3-6g ALCAR in the am; A-AKG in the am; Phyto-Test 2x per day
week 3: 3 caps Hyperdrol X2; 400mg I3C; 400mg SAMe; 3-6g ALCAR in the am; A-AKG in the am; Phyto-Test 2x per day
week 4: 4 caps Hyperdrol X2; 200mg I3C; 200mg SAMe; 3-6g ALCAR in the am; A-AKG in the am; Phyto-Test 2x per day

I'll probably taper back down the Hyperdrol X2 dose for a couple more weeks as well. Is this a good way to taper an AI with something that's highly aromatizable or am I way off base here?