my testosterone results, WOW

[broken7]

I've long suspected I had low test but not this low

Free Test <5 ref range 44-148
Total Test 332 ref range 400-1200

The only hormonal products I've taken were
1-testosterone(oral) at 300-400mg a day for 30 days around Oct 2006 and I used 6-oxo for pct
Havoc at 30mg a day for 30 days around oct 2007. For pct I used Nolva 40/30/20/10. I also did a week of methyl-plex at 10-20 mg a day sometime between those two cycles but I stopped after a week due to side effects and used 6-oxo and novedex xt for pct. I took some stand alone 6-oxo in march 2008.
I know you (Dr houser) have said that a cycle can cause permanent suppression in some people but I am wondering how likely this is for me only having run 2 short cycles with lots of time off and always a pct, maybe not the right pct but still. I would also like to point out that I have been fighting with depression for at least 8 years now and I've been lifting for 4, I weighted 120 pounds at 5`11 and a half and couldn't bench 60 pounds when I started lifting. I've made remarkable gains considering but to say I train hard would be a serious understatement.

A guy I know recently did 15 weeks of 500mg test a week and no pct and had higher test levels then me 8 weeks after his cycle. I strongly suspect I've always been low, except maybe during my early or mid teens cause I remember being horny as hell, getting spontaneous erections on the bus and whatnot but I haven't had one of those since the depression started at 18 years old.

I have an appointment to see an HRT specialist a month from now.

[GotTest]

Though I'm not a Doc, I'm thinking the depression is a result of the low test levels.

Were you doing 4week PCT's?
Have you tried Natty test boosters?
How old are you now?

[usf97j4x4]

Wow... bump for the doc. I had fairly low levels, 399 total, but my free was at 88. I definitely think low T could play a part in your depression.

[GotTest]

Originally Posted by usf97j4x4

Wow... bump for the doc. I had fairly low levels, 399 total, but my free was at 88. I definitely think low T could play a part in your depression.

Was this Pre or Post cycle?

[broken7]

Yes my pct's were approx 4 weeks. The only natty test booster I have ever taken is Trib. I'm 26

[dinoiii]

Originally Posted by broken7

I've long suspected I had low test but not this low

Free Test <5 ref range 44-148
Total Test 332 ref range 400-1200

The only hormonal products I've taken were
1-testosterone(oral) at 300-400mg a day for 30 days around Oct 2006 and I used 6-oxo for pct
Havoc at 30mg a day for 30 days around oct 2007. For pct I used Nolva 40/30/20/10. I also did a week of methyl-plex at 10-20 mg a day sometime between those two cycles but I stopped after a week due to side effects and used 6-oxo and novedex xt for pct. I took some stand alone 6-oxo in march 2008.
I know you (Dr houser) have said that a cycle can cause permanent suppression in some people but I am wondering how likely this is for me only having run 2 short cycles with lots of time off and always a pct, maybe not the right pct but still. I would also like to point out that I have been fighting with depression for at least 8 years now and I've been lifting for 4, I weighted 120 pounds at 5`11 and a half and couldn't bench 60 pounds when I started lifting. I've made remarkable gains considering but to say I train hard would be a serious understatement.

A guy I know recently did 15 weeks of 500mg test a week and no pct and had higher test levels then me 8 weeks after his cycle. I strongly suspect I've always been low, except maybe during my early or mid teens cause I remember being horny as hell, getting spontaneous erections on the bus and whatnot but I haven't had one of those since the depression started at 18 years old.

I have an appointment to see an HRT specialist a month from now.

Never compare yourself to someone else, nor what someone else has run. The two are completely different circumstances in many regards.

Unfortunately, as this may be hard for you to hear...without knowing your levels at baseline, this is very tricky to approximate. Also, not knowing what level would be normal (this may unfortunately, be "normal" for you).

Few questions:

What percentage of your diet comes from fat? What kinds of fat?

Have you ever used LCLT and/or Divanil?

What kind of training are you currently employing? What kind were you using (if not the same) when you got the blood tests above drawn?



D_

[usf97j4x4]

Originally Posted by GotTest

Was this Pre or Post cycle?

1 mo post

[broken7]

Originally Posted by dinoiii

Never compare yourself to someone else, nor what someone else has run. The two are completely different circumstances in many regards.

Unfortunately, as this may be hard for you to hear...without knowing your levels at baseline, this is very tricky to approximate. Also, not knowing what level would be normal (this may unfortunately, be "normal" for you).

Few questions:

What percentage of your diet comes from fat? What kinds of fat?

Have you ever used LCLT and/or Divanil?

What kind of training are you currently employing? What kind were you using (if not the same) when you got the blood tests above drawn?

D_

I've actually upped my fats a lot in the last few months, I used to be more of a high protein, high carb, low fat but I switched to a lower carb and higher fat, high protein. My fats are mostly from nuts (peanut butter, almond butter, mixed nuts), fish (I don't supplement any fish oil or anything like that but I eat a lot of salmon etc), eggs (I eat them everyday sometimes twice a day....usually between 6-12 whole eggs a day), milk and cheese. I don't keep track of my macros but I'd say the fats are plenty high in my diet right now.

I have not used LCLT or Divanil. what is LCLT ?
I realize that since I have no baseline I will never know for sure what my normal levels are but to me it seems rather unlikely that I could have shut myself down to this degree from what I've taken, I felt just as crappy before I took anything as I do now.
I mean if this is normal levels for me then I need hrt cause this sucks!

My training is I guess you could say high intensity (dorian yates style not mentzer style). I don't usually do a ton of sets, I like a couple warm ups then I go all out failure for 1 or 2 sets of 6-12 reps approx depending on the exercise/body part, I usually do more reps for say shoulders or calves. I'll do a few different exercises per bodypart like say for chest: flat bench, inc bench, dips and flies. I've cut down on my training frequency a lot in the last couple months thinking that maybe I was over training but it hasn't done me any good. Typically I was training 4 days a week but I cut down to like 2 and like I said it hasn't been any better, worse actually. I have tried less intense more rep/set routines and I lost strength doing that and got no size from it. At the time of the test I think I was training 2-3 days a week but I may have been doing cardio on top of that I'll have to check my log when I get home from work.

[GotTest]

Originally Posted by broken7

I have not used LCLT or Divanil. what is LCLT ?

LCLT- L-Carnitine L-Tartrate.

I've been looking close at this supplement, Are the studies really as good as they make this product out to be?

L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress -- Volek et al. 282 (2): E474 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effec...[Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006] - PubMed Result

Sorry for the hijack broken7. Figured you could use the info too.

[broken7]

update in case anyone cares
I had my appointment and it went well. Everyone was really nice and knowledgeable and didn't treat me like an idiot. Totally different experience then my family Doc. Because of my age and not wanting me to become infertile they said they will probably give me HCG and only if it doesn't do the job look into some kind of testosterone but I need more blood work first (obviously). They will be checking the following
TSH, ALT, Alk. Phosphatase, Bilirubin, CBC, Bioavailable testosterone, GGT, Estradiol, Dhea, Prolactin, Total Testosterone, LH, Fasting Insulin.
They said it will take a month for the results (thank you Canadian health care system you slow bastards) so my next appointment isn't until the end of August. I will post more updates at that time.