HGH+insulin vs IGF-1+insulin vs GH frags+insulin

[pudzian2]

I have used IGF-1 both orally (oratropin) and IM (LR3) i will say this.. .It did wonders for helping me recovery from JOINT injuries.... without any doubt whatsoever...

It hasn't done a thing as far as muscular hyperplasia/hypertrophy go for me.

BUT I have been thinking..

Alot of top level guys choose to stay on gear the entire pre contest period while either cruising and/or using GH+slin to bulk up/maintain size..

I believe that HGH will do nothing if used by itself as far as muscle growth goes, however HGH + slin is VERY powerful. In the interest of saving some $$ I have given some thought to thisL

since IGF-1 conversion from HGH use is thought to be the reason muscle growth occurs, would using IGF-1 and insulin provide a similar if not the same synergy as HGH and insulin?

DatBtrue (at Am.com) and I discussed this once. He said he did not experience the same synergy between GH +slin and IGF+slin.. I wonder why?

the only reason we came up with was Dat's suggestion that HGH and Slin can shuttle the full amino acid spectrum into the muscle whereas IGF-1 and slin cannot to the same degree therefore not providing the same result..hmm I wonder..

Well if its not JUST the IGF-1 conversion from GH use thats the major player here then what is it?

this makes me think of some of the new GH frags our there (6-13) etc (not the ones that isolate the 'fat mobilizing potential' of GH). I havent done much research on these frags but they are sure more cost effective than GH... I wonder if any of them would provide a similar synergy????

[ENIGMA]

Originally Posted by pudzian2

I have used IGF-1 both orally (oratropin) and IM (LR3) i will say this.. .It did wonders for helping me recovery from JOINT injuries.... without any doubt whatsoever...

It hasn't done a thing as far as muscular hyperplasia/hypertrophy go for me.

BUT I have been thinking..

Alot of top level guys choose to stay on gear the entire pre contest period while either cruising and/or using GH+slin to bulk up/maintain size..

I believe that HGH will do nothing if used by itself as far as muscle growth goes, however HGH + slin is VERY powerful. In the interest of saving some $$ I have given some thought to thisL

since IGF-1 conversion from HGH use is thought to be the reason muscle growth occurs, would using IGF-1 and insulin provide a similar if not the same synergy as HGH and insulin?

DatBtrue (at Am.com) and I discussed this once. He said he did not experience the same synergy between GH +slin and IGF+slin.. I wonder why?

the only reason we came up with was Dat's suggestion that HGH and Slin can shuttle the full amino acid spectrum into the muscle whereas IGF-1 and slin cannot to the same degree therefore not providing the same result..hmm I wonder..

Well if its not JUST the IGF-1 conversion from GH use thats the major player here then what is it?

this makes me think of some of the new GH frags our there (6-13) etc (not the ones that isolate the 'fat mobilizing potential' of GH). I havent done much research on these frags but they are sure more cost effective than GH... I wonder if any of them would provide a similar synergy????

I really cant give any thoughts on this subject due to the fact ive never ran any HGH or IGF-1. I do know though that insulin is one compound I will never mess around with. Ive heard too many horror stories from very experienced guys about close calls they have had with it. I dont know how experienced you are, just make sure you be VERY careful messing around with insulin. IMO unless you are a professional bodybuilder, there is never any reason to have to use it.

[Right Hook]

Originally Posted by ENIGMA

I really cant give any thoughts on this subject due to the fact ive never ran any HGH or IGF-1. I do know though that insulin is one compound I will never mess around with. Ive heard too many horror stories from very experienced guys about close calls they have had with it. I dont know how experienced you are, just make sure you be VERY careful messing around with insulin. IMO unless you are a professional bodybuilder, there is never any reason to have to use it.

I'd agree with this.....its sorta like DNP in that respect.

Having said that I believe HGH > IGF-1. I've used only IGF-1 but like you didnt experience much in terms of hyperplasia. I had a long discussion about this on another board....I'll try to grab some of the good info.

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by Travis

I'd agree with this.....its sorta like DNP in that respect.

Having said that I believe HGH > IGF-1. I've used only IGF-1 but like you didnt experience much in terms of hyperplasia. I had a long discussion about this on another board....I'll try to grab some of the good info.

I have used insulin before and I tell you that if all precautions are taken, its really not that bad. I do not LIKE using it and would not use it unless I have a really good reason to. Which is why this discussion was brought up.

After we talk about HGH vs straight IGF-1 I Think it would be interesting to compare the possible synergy between the new hgh frags and insulin.

[distilled water]

Pudzian, how long have you been using the IGF-1?

[pudzian2]

on and off for over a year. maybe 8 months total out of a year... great for joints! not much else IMO

[distilled water]

Wow, not really what I wanted to hear,lol.

How have you been dosing (times, amount, cycling with etc..)

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by distilled water

Wow, not really what I wanted to hear,lol.

How have you been dosing (times, amount, cycling with etc..)

I dont understand.... You are dissapointed that I've used it that long? or that it didnt make me 300lbs of shredded beef mass hugeness? haha

well... i used 50mcg PWO every workout day on my first cycle and it did help with AAS. I would ONLY use it with AAS for MUSCLE GROWTH. however it also is very good to use after a cycle during the first few weeks of PCT. And also during joint repair/recovery periods.

i have also used it at 10mcg EOD to E3D for a few months at a time to help slowly with joint maintenance/repair. I'd say that unless I stayed on that 10mcg dose for 6months to a year I wouldnt be able to say whether or not it did anything. IF i were to use IGF-1 again it would be WITH AAS and probably with either insulin or some other peptide PWO.

that is why I sparked this discussion. Id like to get some brains together to discuss possible characteristics of newer peptides and their synergies.

[distilled water]

Gotcha. I am also as interested as you (as you already know)

Have you tried running it with peg-MGF? From everything I read on the tow they seem to be pretty synergistic. I have no clue about slin (only the LG product,lol) so im not much help there.

Not a whole ton og hGH either thr price tag is too high so I just say whatever to that.

My younger step brother is on hGH for medical reasons. I think he gets 3gr of Somatropin per perscription. My mom was bitching about the price stil beeing $200 after insurance and all I could do was laugh.

How did you pin the 10mcg? I'd imagine you were on a rotation of body parts/pin sites

[pudzian2]

i actually didnt pay much attention to rotating sites and I didnt always shoot it PWO.. I just wanted consistent blood levels of LR3 to help with my joints over a period of time. If I were to use IGF again it would be receptor. and THEN I would shoot bi lat with a bunch extra bac water in the dart to spread it out int the muscle before its rendered useless. I think IGF-1 LR3 would be more effective in the 50-100mcg 3-4x per week dose range, but its quite expensive at that dose.

GH is too cost prohibitive for me as well. Especially becuase I still feel I can do much mroe wihtout it. I really wish people knew more these frags. I dont even know what the 6-13 frag is supposed to do. I think its supposed to boost endogenous production by a large degree but im not sure.