187s (EQ-T)2 Log

[LBVT]

Word, that's what I was thinking. Cat is almost 6'2", 200 pounds. Fast metabolism and consuming maintenance cals, no wonder he's not gaining weight.

Pound down 4000 cals a day. Then you'll see the benefits.

In this situation, I don't think the supplement is the problem, but the diet is.

[Supa-T]

I gotta say it though...if he is gaining strength, pumps are feirce, and he is maintaining weight but losing bf%...what's the problem? He could just not be consuming enough water in his diet to retain much. The dose of both of these compounds in a serving is low and he probably should have started at 4/day and moved up to 5/day after the frist two or three weeks. Recomping is a worthy effect of any PH, and we knew that the results of this were going to be mild at best-at least that was my expectation. I'm with C on this one, should have had the diet straight from day one. But now it's done and it ends up being a cutting cycle (as his diet would maintain) instead of a bulking cycle.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by one8seven

I was actually going to say the same thing. I was plannin on just starting pct tomorrow. Nothing extraordinary's going to happen in another week.

This is a good idea.

Originally Posted by LBVT

Pound down 4000 cals a day. Then you'll see the benefits.

.

@4000+ cal per day do you even need a ph to gain?

Originally Posted by Supa-T

I gotta say it though...if he is gaining strength, pumps are feirce, and he is maintaining weight but losing bf%...what's the problem? He could just not be consuming enough water in his diet to retain much. The dose of both of these compounds in a serving is low and he probably should have started at 4/day and moved up to 5/day after the frist two or three weeks. Recomping is a worthy effect of any PH, and we knew that the results of this were going to be mild at best-at least that was my expectation. I'm with C on this one, should have had the diet straight from day one. But now it's done and it ends up being a cutting cycle (as his diet would maintain) instead of a bulking cycle.

5 tabs day? That is 165mg of M14ADD and 100mg Halodrol to see some effects for someone who weighs 200#?

[EasyEJL]

Originally Posted by DR_C

Folks, I am noting going to get into a pissing contest here because these things need to play out for themselves - without my interference.

However, someone had already pointed out the problem with this log - 2546 cals daily!

At 200 +/- pounds, He's not going to growing eating 2500-2600 cals.

When I diet for a contest, I consume 2500 cals a day!

Regards,

very true, even if he is doing no other physical activities beyond lifting, that is probably just at maintenance at best. Do you have some links to other logs on the product? as the combo is quite interesting to me, but after the CEL M1,4 issue and what Patrick Arnold had to say about both sourcing as well as testing for it, i'm a little leery. I have some original designer supplements m1,4 but would be interesting in using this and saving that

[Supa-T]

Originally Posted by Sonny

This is a good idea.

Agree

@4000+ cal per day do you even need a ph to gain?

No. But you do need proper fuel to gain on ph, and 4000+cal/day w/o ph will result in more than just lean mass. I think the point was that his calories throughout were not sufficient.

5 tabs day? That is 165mg of M14ADD and 100mg Halodrol to see some effects for someone who weighs 200#?

IMO, I weigh this much and that's what I would do. But I also have more experience with ph's, so this may have been bad advice w/o knowing him better.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by Supa-T

IMO, I weigh this much and that's what I would do. But I also have more experience with ph's, so this may have been bad advice w/o knowing him better.

Not criticizing, just asking, do not see many go that high. But as you said, different situations etc.

[Supa-T]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Not criticizing, just asking, do not see many go that high. But as you said, different situations etc.

No offense taken or intended bro After reviewing my post I realized I should have clarified, good call.
I'm not big on this compound (although here I am with a half-dozen bottles), but I have talked directly with a guy who said he gained 12lbs and a ton of strength in 8 weeks on this stuff-albeit wet gains. Now, in that you are correct...At 4000+cals a day and the right WO reg, a guy could feasibly add close to that much weight in that time period-wet weight. After cutting he would be left with maybe two or three solid pounds of muscle... W/O the aid of a PH.

[one8seven]

I'll make a more detailed reply to all this new stuff when I get home today..

I don't think 2600 cals would cause a working PH to stop working. I could take Halo by it's self and eat less than 2600 cals and gain mass without an issue. This has Halo and Dbol both. My understanding of Dbol is it's like a "take off" compound that kicks in faster than most. A jump start if you will. It didn't show up. If it did, it wasn't consistent.

Ultimately I gained a bit of mass and I'll post pics. But I started PCT on Monday due to a decline in strength from Thursday through the weekend. Bottom line I think it was inconsistent. And I think saying that it doesn't work until I consume 4k calories is a cop out excuse. No other PH out there requires 4k cals in order for it to kick in, and that's not even logical to suggest a compound would require that to work. On another note my appetite never increased either. I got some BP headaches and some pumps but I also take WMS, with CM and glycerol monostearate pre workout and that causes pump. I did have a few days where recovery was cut into half, almost needed no down time what so ever. But again. It was inconsistent.

I'm sorry if it isn't what people were wanting to hear but I think I did a good job letting people know what was going on every day and what my thoughts were. I'm not biased for or against and just tell it how i see it and what was happening day to day.

[xjsynx]

WTF

Your so called bulk is the same amount of calories I am cutting with....who gave you this diet plan, EasyEJL?

Without the proper building materials/nutrients, you are not going to grow that much.

What EFA's are you supplementing? That is an easy way to bump up calories.

Another issuer is your workout routine. Is there any logic involved? Remember you need to create enough stimuli to warrant growth.

So, I see a failed bulk due to nutrition & training.

[one8seven]

I've seen many of your posts and I don't hold you in high regard, at all..So I'm going to wait to hear from some of the other members.

thx