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Old 07-06-2008, 04:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernkraft View Post
If by pyramiding you mean during the last few weeks of the first part of the cycle going up and then ramping it down with some p-5-p going into 11-OXO and starting high again with the official pct after 11-oxo and tapering off long term (again with p-5-p - big supporter of extended pct/tapering off) - then yes lol
I'm sorry I just noticed you were using the AI on cycle as well as in PCT. I was referring to pyramid'ing during pct only really. But I like how you have it currently set up.

Do you still plan to use the p-5-p even after your latest research on B6?

Prolactin Issues???? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 07-06-2008, 05:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'm sorry I just noticed you were using the AI on cycle as well as in PCT. I was referring to pyramid'ing during pct only really. But I like how you have it currently set up.

Do you still plan to use the p-5-p even after your latest research on B6?

Prolactin Issues???? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After much research this weekend I've decided B6 and potentially even B5 could be bad for prolactin issues. Just a theory - but the nipple area is extremely sensitive especially with the more fat there is around it because of the numerous nerve endings - with high dosages of B6 comes nerve damage or numbness correct? I have a feeling this is why this may have been successful (only for the moment) in the past at high doses and connected to somehow damaging the ducts.

I'm reading up a lot more on tyrosine and mucuna puriens (conveniently enough found also in AN's IGF-2). Maybe low dosing those in the later stages of a potentially prolactin prone cycle and long term throughout pct may be beneficial to prevent such sides? Either way the search goes on - the last thing anyone wants to do is get cabergoline I imagine.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:17 PM   #33
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Day 4 - Holy Water Retention Batman

Weighed in at 136lbs pwo today - that's +4 lbs already. Yikes. Muscles feeling fuller for sure. Lethargy is back to minimal for the moment. Blew through today's workout getting a fairly good pump in the shoulders (really where I want to grow the most - there and the chest). Finished things off with 20 minutes on the stationary bike.

Sides - nothing too serious to report although unfortunately my bowels have been turned to liquid over the last two days - the only thing I can potentially attribute this to is the inositol in the Nimbus Poseidon. So instead of doing that three times a day I'm going to limit it to once a day and hopefully my bowel movements start getting back to normal. Whatever it is - it's cleaning the hell out of my system lol.

As I mentioned to Travis above I've thrown out the option of using p-5-p or b6 as a preventative or counter-active measure for prolactin because of the overwhelming amount of literature that I read over the weekend that indicates it would work otherwise. I'll be reading up more on mucus puriens (as well as tyrosine) which is conveniently found in AN IGF-2 (funny how AN makes a lot of pct beneficial products).
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
I agree. It's a great supplement but marketing as a SERM is like some companies marketing Epithio's as an anti-e, reckless.
Agreed - however been emailing back and forth with Pat and he said trans-resveratrol could be run as a SERM at at least 2 grams a day for PCT... so I'm not sure where to go with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
Good stuff Kern. x2 on the Adrenalean - great product!
Adrenlean ='s the shit - the cognitive blend of hordinine and l-huperzine A is unreal.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernkraft View Post
After much research this weekend I've decided B6 and potentially even B5 could be bad for prolactin issues. Just a theory - but the nipple area is extremely sensitive especially with the more fat there is around it because of the numerous nerve endings - with high dosages of B6 comes nerve damage or numbness correct? I have a feeling this is why this may have been successful (only for the moment) in the past at high doses and connected to somehow damaging the ducts.

I'm reading up a lot more on tyrosine and mucuna puriens (conveniently enough found also in AN's IGF-2). Maybe low dosing those in the later stages of a potentially prolactin prone cycle and long term throughout pct may be beneficial to prevent such sides? Either way the search goes on - the last thing anyone wants to do is get cabergoline I imagine.
I researched this a while back and just kept running into various natural supps that had "some" AI and prolactin reducing effects however none were substantial enough to really instill any confidence if one were to actually have an issue with prolactin. Basically your just looking for ways to increase dopamine when dealing with elevated prolactin (inverse relationship). Having said that natty supps probably arent a bad way to try and prevent prolactin issues but if you were suffering from hyperprolactinaemia I wouldnt be slow to break out the caber...

Hyperprolactinaemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prolactin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 07-06-2008, 06:26 PM   #36
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Patrick Arnold said that on the res?
Old 07-06-2008, 07:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I researched this a while back and just kept running into various natural supps that had "some" AI and prolactin reducing effects however none were substantial enough to really instill any confidence if one were to actually have an issue with prolactin. Basically your just looking for ways to increase dopamine when dealing with elevated prolactin (inverse relationship). Having said that natty supps probably arent a bad way to try and prevent prolactin issues but if you were suffering from hyperprolactinaemia I wouldnt be slow to break out the caber...

Hyperprolactinaemia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prolactin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yeah I emailed a doctor over the weekend whose run numerous studies on b6 and prolactin with some questions about the mechanisms behind hyperprolactinaemia and if any studies exist on the prevention or suppression of it. Hopefully I'll hear back from him at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Patrick Arnold said that on the res?
Yep - via email. If I were to attempt this i'd at least double the suggested dose to 4g to air on the side of caution... but I'm not sure if I want to be the first lab rat. Dmang however did run it at 2 grams with success supposedly after his pplex tren and bold cycle (or was it sd? I forget). He did have torem on hand though also because he obviously wasn't completely confident in it.
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernkraft View Post
Yeah I emailed a doctor over the weekend whose run numerous studies on b6 and prolactin with some questions about the mechanisms behind hyperprolactinaemia and if any studies exist on the prevention or suppression of it. Hopefully I'll hear back from him at some point.
Let us know what you hear.

Quote:
Yep - via email. If I were to attempt this i'd at least double the suggested dose to 4g to air on the side of caution... but I'm not sure if I want to be the first lab rat. Dmang however did run it at 2 grams with success supposedly after his pplex tren and bold cycle (or was it sd? I forget). He did have torem on hand though also because he obviously wasn't completely confident in it.
I dunno man. Probably not something I would rely on at this point (hope it has this benefit). Lots of variables but this study seems to indicate otherwise:

Is Resveratrol an Estrogen Agonist in Growing Rats? -- Turner et al. 140 (1): 50 -- Endocrinology
Quote:
Our in vivo results demonstrate that resveratrol does not stimulate indexes of uterine growth and differentiation in immature rats; even very high doses of resveratrol generally had insignificant effects on uterine wet weight, epithelial cell height, and IGF-I gene expression. Additionally, resveratrol had no effect on other estrogen target tissues; treatment with resveratrol did not alter cortical bone growth, the serum concentration of cholesterol, or body weight. We conclude from these findings that resveratrol is not an estrogen agonist in the rat.
Old 07-06-2008, 10:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
I agree. It's a great supplement but marketing as a SERM is like some companies marketing Epithio's as an anti-e, reckless.
That was retarded; I especially loved it when IBE stole an image from a SERM study and pasted the word 'epistane' over the part(s) in the image where it said 'SERM' or 'nolvadex'. I don't remember the exact detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Patrick Arnold said that on the res?
Yes, I was a little disappointed when he said that and I still don't particularly agree.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:16 PM